Good behaviours vs beliefs

@divegeester said
What examples can you offer of “an important part of Christian belief or commit some kind of heresy” or a “certain part of the faith”, which in rejecting it would render the Christian’s good behaviours null and void but put them in a “very dangerous situation”?

I would refer you to the Nicene Creed for the basic beliefs of Christianity:

believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father through Whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried; And He rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; And He will come again with glory to judge the living and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come.

Amen.

@philokalia said
I would refer you to the Nicene Creed for the basic beliefs of Christianity

Unconvincing.

@divegeester said
Unconvincing.

In what way..?

It's just a statement of the minimum that we should believe as Christians concerning our theology. It was established through council and consensus.

@philokalia said
If we say we are Christians but fail to lead an upright life, not being transformed at all by our faith, what is our faith, really?

Faith is a set of deep-seated personal opinions and beliefs about one's self in the context of a perceived relationship with a God figure, and how ~ in light of this ~ one defines "an upright life".

@fmf said
Faith is a set of deep-seated personal opinions and beliefs about one's self in the context of a perceived relationship with a God figure, and how ~ in light of this ~ one defines "an upright life".

I disagree with this:

Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

So we have a great certainty - a certainty for which many have been willing to die and suffer rather than recant.

It is not publicly verifiable, of course, so it may appear foolish to some. So be it!

@philokalia said
So we have a great certainty - a certainty for which many have been willing to die and suffer rather than recant.

A willingness to die may well be evidence of certainty and sincerity but it's not, in and of itself, evidence of supernatural causality.

@fmf said
A willingness to die may well be evidence of certainty and sincerity but it's not, in and of itself, evidence of supernatural causality.

That is correct - there is nothing which proves to the people of the world that our God is real... Faith itself is something that is given by God:

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

All things are gifts from God, including even our faith, which is originate in Christ's incarnation.

St. John Chrysostom has some interesting words on the incarnation and faith:

If He had not come, or been incarnate, then the things of faith would not have fared well either. And it is from hence that all the good things take their rise. But if it is He that giveth it, He knoweth how He dealeth it. For He made all, and taketh like care of all. And as His giving came of His love towards man, so doth the quantity which He giveth. For was He Who had shown His goodness in regard to the main point, which is the giving of the gift, likely to neglect thee in regard to the measure? For had He wished to do thee dishonor, then He had not given them at all.

I think it shows that faith is something that is present in all of us - a willingnes to commit to God with certainty, and some people misplace it. But this is a very difficult topic. I do not have the time to commit fully to this line but I will share the link to St. John Chrysostom's quote in context here.

It's a difficult and interesting topic!

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/chrysostom/romans/12.htm

@fmf said
A willingness to die may well be evidence of certainty and sincerity but it's not, in and of itself, evidence of supernatural causality.

Would you consider this to be your opinion and belief’s in fair comparison. If so what does that really say of your opinion’s/belief’s and how does that make you correct in your eyes? In the end we will know, do you have some kind of inside info we don’t?

@mike69 said
Would you consider this to be your opinion and belief’s in fair comparison. If so what does that really say of your opinion’s/belief’s and how does that make you correct in your eyes? In the end we will know, do you have some kind of inside info we don’t?

I'm just sharing my perspective on these matters like everyone else here.

@FMF
I disagree, you talk with certainty on the subject when all you have are opinions.

@mike69 said
@FMF
I disagree, you talk with certainty on the subject when all you have are opinions.

Like you and everyone else here, all I have are opinions and, yes, I feel certainty [to varying degrees] about them. This affects how I "talk". You also "talk with certainty on the subject" about your beliefs.

@philokalia said
In what way..?

It's just a statement of the minimum that we should believe as Christians concerning our theology. It was established through council and consensus.

It’s not a source that is convincing to me in terms it offering evidential support for your counter argument as it’s the root of much of Christianity’s flirtatious relationship with corporate governance of the laity.

@philokalia said
That is correct - there is nothing which proves to the people of the world that our God is real... Faith itself is something that is given by God:

[quote]Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man ...[text shortened]... t's a difficult and interesting topic!

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/chrysostom/romans/12.htm

We are called to walk out our faith, doing it not just word or talk, for that adds
nothing neither proves anything. God came and laid down His life for us and calls
us to do the same; He loved us even while we were enemies of Him and calls us
to do the same with our enemies. He forgives us and calls us to do the same as
He has done for us. Without God in us sanctifying us, we are simply in the flesh
doing what we want without Him, and none of us can please God that way.

Walking with Christ is putting our faith into action; it isn't just what we know
and believe, even the devil believes, and it isn't going to do him any good in
the end fire waits for Him. All of us can talk and believe what we will, it will all
be tested in the end without exception.

From 1 John 3
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

@kellyjay said
We are called to walk out our faith, doing it not just word or talk, for that adds
nothing neither proves anything. God came and laid down His life for us and calls
us to do the same; He loved us even while we were enemies of Him and calls us
to do the same with our enemies. He forgives us and calls us to do the same as
He has done for us. Without God in us sanctifying u ...[text shortened]... God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

I agree

Check this out:

Do not say that you are the temple of the Lord, writes Jeremiah (cf. Jer. 7:4); nor should you say that faith alone in our Lord Jesus Christ can save you, for this is impossible unless you also acquire love for Him through your works.

As for faith by itself, the devils also believe, and tremble (Jas. 2:19).

Four Hundred Texts on Love 1.39

https://pravoslavie.ru/100726.html

@divegeester said
Unconvincing.

Why?