1. Joined
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    15 Jul '22 08:07
    I’m avoiding the terms “works” and “faith” to keep the principle more generic.

    Which is most important doing good things for your neighbours or believing certain things about your God?
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Jul '22 08:56
    @divegeester said
    Which is most important doing good things for your neighbours or believing certain things about your God?
    It would be a strange code for living for a creator entity to require if the goodness of people "doing good things for [their] neighbours" somehow took a backseat to the divinely narcissistic notion of people having to "believe certain things" about the entity. To my way of thinking, anyway.
  3. PenTesting
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    15 Jul '22 10:59
    @divegeester said
    I’m avoiding the terms “works” and “faith” to keep the principle more generic.

    Which is most important doing good things for your neighbours or believing certain things about your God?
    Faith without works is dead.
    Blessed is the man that doeth His commandments
  4. Standard memberKingDavid403
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    20 Jul '22 21:491 edit
    @rajk999 said
    Faith without works is dead.
    Blessed is the man that doeth His commandments
    Faith without works is dead.
    Blessed is the man that doeth His commandments

    Correct; however:
    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourself: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8–9)
  5. PenTesting
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    20 Jul '22 22:33
    @kingdavid403 said
    Faith without works is dead.
    Blessed is the man that doeth His commandments

    Correct; however:
    “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourself: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8–9)
    Personally I put my faith in Jesus Christ. You are free to put yours in Paul. Bear in mind Paul also said, women are ... saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Timothy 2:15 KJV). So carry on.
  6. Standard memberKingDavid403
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    20 Jul '22 22:4810 edits
    @rajk999 said
    Personally I put my faith in Jesus Christ. You are free to put yours in Paul. Bear in mind Paul also said, women are ... saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (1 Timothy 2:15 KJV). So carry on.
    So, anything written by Paul in the Bible is false scriptures or something, in your opinion?
    So much for two-thirds of the New Testament huh?
    Personally, I myself put my faith in Christ. You are free to put yours in James if you wish. However, you better ask God what He thinks about that first. While you're asking Him about that, ask Him about Paul's writings in the Bible, and if they are true; will you? lol OMG.
    Bear in mind Paul also said, women are ... saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
    There was much much more Paul said in this chapter.
    I'm assuming Paul's somewhat condemnation of women in Ephesus, was because their main false god 'Artemis' was a woman; and, Paul and others clearly were having some kind of power struggle with the women there who worshiped this false god, and others; and Jesus also.. Ephesus was a wealthy city where women had much power in that society; more than most Greek Roman cities at that time.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Jul '22 00:50
    @kingdavid403 said
    So, anything written by Paul in the Bible is false scriptures or something, in your opinion?
    So much for two-thirds of the New Testament huh?
    So much for two-thirds of the New Testament huh?

    Yes, indeed. So much for all the Paul stuff.
  8. Joined
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    27 Jul '22 10:14
    The important thing being fear, it occurs first believing God. You might argue humanists have a well developed sense of compassion to where they can fear not doing enough to protect their fellow human beings. I don't sense that as much as something that comes from greater power than instinct. Both men and women seem to have a respect for power, and with it responsibility... the one is before since it leads organically to the other, or a wrong turn made somewhere. Also, worship is a profound experience that recognizes the truth about God, built on both of these characteristics. I'd say overall an act of belief matters the most.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Jul '22 10:51
    @of-ants-and-imps said
    Also, worship is a profound experience that recognizes the truth about God, built on both of these characteristics.
    Does Muslim worship "recognize the truth about God" too?
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Jul '22 10:51
    @of-ants-and-imps said
    You might argue humanists have a well developed sense of compassion to where they can fear not doing enough to protect their fellow human beings. I don't sense that as much as something that comes from greater power than instinct.
    I think this may well be true.
  11. Joined
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    27 Jul '22 15:22
    @FMF
    Islamic beliefs stop short of recognizing Jesus as Savior, so they don't worship the same divine narrative. Don't they have a sacred memory, prayers offering them hope and altars similar to the Prophets of old? Thus they're akin to being followers of the Almighty.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Jul '22 16:21
    @of-ants-and-imps said
    Islamic beliefs stop short of recognizing Jesus as Savior, so they don't worship the same divine narrative.
    Well, yeah, Muslims aren't Christians, if that's what you are getting at. It's just that you said: "Worship is a profound experience that recognizes the truth about God." So, It's only a "profound experience" for people who happen to subscribe to the same religion as you, right?
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    27 Jul '22 18:43
    @fmf said
    So, It's only a "profound experience" for people who happen to subscribe to the same religion as you, right?
    I subscribe to western religion although Eastern religion generally speaking is unsurpassed with their heightened spiritual experience. Those places where freedom of religion is upheld include the legacy of Ghandi (Sikhism, Hinduism, etc). The problems for them are maintaining a unity, because you can have all the diverse elements working but not have the university that is emblematic of worship, a cohesive dialect and bridging the physical realm with spirituality.
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Jul '22 19:58
    @divegeester said
    I’m avoiding the terms “works” and “faith” to keep the principle more generic.

    Which is most important doing good things for your neighbours or believing certain things about your God?
    Why do you make them out to be two different things? God is love, He acts out of love, the being and doing, are love being, and doing?
  15. Joined
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    28 Jul '22 00:21
    @kellyjay said
    Why do you make them out to be two different things? God is love, He acts out of love, the being and doing, are love being, and doing?
    I said “believing” not “being”.
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