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  1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Feb '21 20:35
    @moonbus said
    <<Trump fervor at the four-day CPAC event has been so strong that Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. declared it “T-PAC” and participants rolled out a golden statue of the former president.>>

    Quoted from Reuters

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-conservatives/trump-to-proclaim-himself-as-the-future-for-republicans-in-speech-idUSKCN2AS0J5

    AP includes a photo o ...[text shortened]... ws.com/article/joe-biden-capitol-siege-donald-trump-florida-orlando-890c3b8d6b2ab4f9f29b0b36c03a304b
    The statute is so ridiculous (a magic wand? Sandals? Red white and blue shorts?) it's difficult for me to believe that the sculptor wasn't creating a parody that Trump worshippers are too dumb to recognize as such.
  2. Subscribermoonbus
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    02 Mar '21 10:373 edits
    @they

    Agree with most of that - however I believe some people are not able to think critically. It is not a matter of training or better schooling - some people simply cannot follow the argument A to B to C.

    Part of it is intelligence - nature, and part of it is environment - nurture. If you are drowning, you hold on to the life raft and can't consider why it is buoyant.

    If you are emotionally ill equip to handle the world in 2021, you don't make cogent arguments online or at the dinner table.

    People have been around what 200,000 years? Civilization 5,000 years maybe? Electricity and running water 120 years? Modern life is pretty new, and we can't expect everyone to keep up yet.

    I started the thread because I wanted to look at truth philosophically - together - the inherent good or lack there of. I try to live my ever shortening remaining days with a philosophy. This is who I am. And I wonder where truth fits into that personal philosophy. It's muddled to be sure and for many of the reasons you point out.

    I want to be honest. I wonder if that is really much a of worthwhile goal.

    Thank you everyone for the input - this is very enjoyable.


    Humans have been around for roughly 800,000 years, maybe longer. Settled agrarian cultures with urban population concentrations have been around much less than that, only a few thousand years. What allowed H. saps. to survive and thrive, when several other hominid branches became extinct (e.g., Denisovans, Neanderthals, etc.), is not solely intelligence. Not the sort of intelligence which registers on a modern IQ test anyway. There is some evidence that Neanderthals actually had bigger brains than we have, yet we replaced them when our ancestors migrated out of Africa and met them already living in Europe and Asia. Probably what made the difference was more EQ (emotional quotient) than IQ. In other words, the ability of H. saps. to cooperate, act collectively for their common good, and to resolve conflicts of interest without killing each other. The essential emotions which form the basis of any social cohesion and cooperation, and ultimately also therefore the basis for peaceful conflict resolution (i.e., civil law and morality) are compassion and empathy. These have nothing to do with truth as such or the intellectual ability to formulate truths. They have to do with feeling someone else's pain and responding to it.

    On an evolutionary scale of time, the last few thousand years of 'civilization' are a drip in the ocean. Settled agrarian urban cities grew up in India and present-day Iraq about 5,000 years ago; that represents only 0.625 % of humanity's roughly 800,000 year sojourn here. Hardly enough time for some individuals to have evolved the necessary emotional and social skills to live at peace with the 'new' settled situation, which is quite different to that of nomadic hunter-gatherers who generally do not acquire property (beyond what they can dismount and carry in order to follow migrant food supplies). Given that most 'civilized' conflicts arise over property (in the broadest sense including both movable objects and real estate), it is obvious where the shoe pinches: inequality between the haves and the have-nots, inadequate upward mobility for the have-nots, and biased mechanisms for redressing grievances.

    For nomads, the issue is very much simpler than for settled peoples: nomads have no real estate, so there is nothing to inherit. All they have in terms of movable objects is what they all collectively require for immediate survival: hunting weapons, tools for making hunting weapons, and the basic implements of making shelter and preparing food. There is no survival value in one individual hoarding all the spear points or all the pots. He would doom the whole clan to starvation, himself included, if he succeeded.

    Hoarding all the nails or all the oil reserves, or cornering the market on a particular vaccine or stock option, is a peculiarly civilized form of stupidity which would never occur in a nomadic form of life.

    Obviously, some forms of social structure are better suited than others to high concentrations of settled populations where people are awash in property — that is, where the potential for conflict of interest is very high. Factors which militate against peaceful conflict resolution are:

    1. Monotheistic religions: 'our religion is the one true religion; our god is the one true god; everyone else's is false'.

    2. Nationalism: 'our way of doing things is the best/right way, and anyone who disagrees is a non-patriot (resident) or an enemy (foreigner)'.

    3.Racism/xenophobia/discrimination: 'white heterosexuals are the chosen people; you will not replace us'.

    Who are the most dangerous people in America right now? The people who tick all three boxes listed above: evangelical white racist homophobic patriots — the people who recently stormed the bastion of the peaceful resolution of conflict in Washington DC and revelled in putting up a gallows with which to hang the Vice President. Do you think truth or cogent argument at the dinner table is going to change those people's minds? Hardly. What they are deficient in is not only critical thinking, but also the EQ needed for conflict resolution and social cooperation. As you point out, they aren't emotionally equipped to handle civilization, with its plurality of interests and multiple layers of inequality conflict. In a word, they need to evolve beyond the 'me first! my party first! my country first! my religion first! my race first! me me me!' crapola. Why? Because cooperation is survival, exclusionism is the road to extinction.

    So, what about a personal philosophy? May I suggest that you search for factors dispositive to human survival and flourishing first, and truth only insofar as it is conducive to that.
  3. Joined
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    25 Feb '21 03:41
    @metal-brain said
    I believe honest and fair debates are the best way to find the truth about controversial people. Here is your chance to judge what Bill Gates' intentions are.

    https://www.ccn.com/bill-gates-conspiracy-theorists-might-not-be-as-crazy-as-you-think/

    I don't think any informed person would claim Bill Gates is a saint, but how good or bad is he? Let's debate the facts an ...[text shortened]... myths surrounding this very wealthy and powerful man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjwYgu1Mgg
    You want us to honestly and fairly review the evidence that Bill Gates wants to enslave the human race with vaccines and electronic implants, to surgically remove the spiritual parts of our brains, and block out the sun?
  4. Subscribermoonbus
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    25 Feb '21 07:17
    @great-big-stees said
    It was a hot summer’s night about 25+ years ago and my wife said she thought there was a bat flying in our bedroom. I turned on the light and sure enough there was the wee beastie. I said not to worry I’d take care of it and asked where the kids butter fly nets were. She said in the garage(a stand alone bldg about 50ft from our back door. It was about 3 in the morning ...[text shortened]... ght the bat and my wife and I had a good laugh, her saying that she hoped it wasn’t anybody we knew.
    Thanks, Stees. I can tell an almost identical story. We were two families camping at Yosemite. We were in two separate tents, the grown-ups in one tent, the kids in another. The food was in locked coolers under the picnic table. This was in the 1960s when bears still roamed about the camp grounds. In the middle of the night, a bear came snuffling through, looking for any left-overs a careless camper might have neglected to clean up. As the bear got to our camp site, we heard a cooler being dragged and roughed-over as the bear tried to get it open. Bears (still at that time anyway) could be frightened away by loud noises, so . . . from the adults' tent a man emerged (I won't mention names, to protect the innocent), yelling and banging a metal ladle against a big pot. The bear lumbered off, and suddenly a dozen flashlights (that's "torches" for you Brits) from tents all around were trained on, you guessed it, a stark naked man holding a ladle and a pot.
  5. Subscribershavixmir
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    25 Feb '21 14:21
    @divegeester said
    Germany’s best selling newspaper hails the British vaccine rollout and subsequent roadmap for lockdown release, as Merkel warns of a third wave in the country as it lags behind in its vaccination programme.

    #brexit-now-what?

    It’s in all the mainstream media but here are two to provide binocularity.

    Sky News version
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-ge ...[text shortened]... an.com/world/2021/feb/24/germany-frustration-grows-sluggish-rollout-covid-vaccines-falling-behind-uk
    Nobody can deny the UK’s doing an excellent job with its vaccination roll out.

    Compared to the Netherlands... sweet Jesus... only God knows what the hell’s wrong over here.
    I believe Bulgaria and 2 other European countries I’ve never heard of are doing a worse job.
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    25 Feb '21 15:27
    1. Under Section 32 of the Salmon Act it specifies that handling salmon in suspicious circumstances is an offence in England, Wales and Scotland.
  7. Joined
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    25 Feb '21 17:56
    Article 34 states salmon aren't allowed in fish farms without consent.

    Whose consent, their parents? They'll be wanting their own trade union next.

    (I was intending to conclude that this all sounds a bit fishy but I have decided to refrain from saying a bit fishy because it sounds a bit too corny.)
  8. Joined
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    25 Feb '21 18:32
    @very-rusty said
    Up for discussion if you have any ideas on this philosophy?

    -VR
    You'll have to define what you mean by 'happy' first.
  9. Arch Stantons Grave
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    25 Feb '21 19:37
    @very-rusty said
    You only Wish!

    She reminds me of an ex I once kicked out of bed for eating crackers. 🙂

    -VR
    Oh, I heard you kicked him out of bed because his moustache wasn't bushy enough for you.
  10. Arch Stantons Grave
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    25 Feb '21 20:011 edit
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    3. Mr Potato head is now gender-neutral.
    I heard he is now identifying as a kumquat.
  11. Subscribermoonbus
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    25 Feb '21 21:412 edits
    @they said
    "Truth as such is an instrumental good, not an intrinsic one."

    Maybe (probably). But I think that is an idea worth considering.

    What if truth was an intrinsic good? Science comes to mind, as well as philosophy and sociology. What if it was intrinsically good for everyone to always tell the truth?

    Would the world be a different place? A better one?

    An easier way to ...[text shortened]... ow would that change day to day living? Would it possibly be an improvement from what we have today?
    Not everyone is ready to hear truth (even assuming there is one and that someone knows it and is in a position to tell it -- which is not always the case).

    It is easy to imagine cases, or cite real-life ones, in which telling someone the truth is undesirable. Viktor Frankel wrote a book, "Man's Search for Meaning." In it, he recounts his experiences in a Nazi concentration camp. A trained psychiatrist, he was a keen observer of humans under the most testing conditions imaginable. He noted that the people who survived the death camps were not those of robust physical constitution; given the exhausting forced labor and totally inadequate caloric intake, even the most robust physiques were reduced to walking skeletons within a matter of weeks. The ones who survived were those who believed that someone who loved them was waiting for them outside. In other words, hope of reunion with a loved one was what kept them alive.

    Now, suppose you were newly arrived in Auschwitz and you met someone who had been there a while ahead of you. Suppose you came to know that the only thing keeping that man alive was the hope of seeing his daughter again (alive, of course); everyone else he cared about had already been captured and gassed. Suppose you happened to know that her hiding place had been betrayed, that she was already dead. Would you tell him ?

    Further cases where telling someone a truth he is not ready to understand or cope with is highly undesirable: telling a four-yr-old her big sister got raped and murdered is such a case. Or telling grandmother, who has a weak heart and might die of the shock if she knew, that her recently deceased husband had squandered the family fortune and that she, granny, was now penniless. Better to muddle through with little white lies and wait until little sister is old enough to cope with the truth; better to keep granny warm and comfortable and feeling safe while the rest of family scrambles to find suitable lodgings for her.

    In these cases, the intrinsic good is human flourishing, and truth sometimes hinders this.
  12. Joined
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    26 Feb '21 12:24
    That in the few forums and their threads, I look into there seems to be a lot of "friction". Now I am fully aware that people do have differing opinions but why do those differences have to be included in all threads, no matter the topic? (A is a socialist, B a conservative. C likes kinky sex, D is into celibacy. ) We get that you all have your "differences" but, come on just don't bring those differences into all the threads.



    Oh boy, let's see where this goes.
  13. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    26 Feb '21 14:02
    @very-rusty said
    He appears to be nice, but has been known to throw shots at people at the same time. You see if your nice one can get away with that without it being noticed by many people.

    Lets hope the poster is not just noticing this situation which has been on going for years!~

    -VR
    Some people appear nice because they are.
  14. Canal Park
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    26 Feb '21 19:27
    @very-rusty said
    I am still unable to get into the redhotpawn.com 🙁

    -VR
    We should be so lucky 😉
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Feb '21 00:441 edit
    @averagejoe1 said
    Ssehcud, you cannot compare your question here to the one I ask, because by his very status Hitler could not lay in state at the capitol. I hate it. Try someone else. Do the Chinese know what the phrase apples and apples mean?
    OMG a Trump worshipper complaining about some other public figure committing adultery 25+ years ago! The hypocrisy or pure simplemindedness is hard to behold.

    Google "Marla Maples". Or you can dust off your March 1990 People magazine. https://people.com/archive/cover-story-ooh-la-la-marla-vol-33-no-9/
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