@moonbus saidSo the book of Revelation is not actually a revelation? (Where we find Jesus, the lamb, being present during the whole burning in hell thing).
The kingdom of God is spread out upon the Earth, here and now, yet people do not see it. Some among the living during his lifetime would understand the teaching and come to see the world in a grain of sand and eternity in a hour. That is what Jesus taught. Those who think and preach that heaven comes later, after death, up in the sky, will be preceded by birds; Gospel of Thom ...[text shortened]... e of being, here, now, in this life. PS love your neighbor and even those who mock and torture you.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou can speak for yourself if you like but you absolutely speak to and for everyone when you make claims about what is good or right and what isn’t. We call people murders who murder, liars those who lie.
Speak for yourself.
Do you ever condemn or find fault in others, do you know anyone without faults? Do you believe that there are good people who only do good, and bad people who only do bad?
As long as you are vague about all the ends and outs you can make any claim you want, simply because you know you are not going to explain yourself when your questioned.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidModern people do not understand the language of prophecy. They confuse it for prediction. Prediction is a statement that something will happen, no matter what you do. A comet will return in so-many years, is an example of a prediction. This is a statement which will be verified or refuted by empirical evidence at the appointed time.
So the book of Revelation is not actually a revelation? (Where we find Jesus, the lamb, being present during the whole burning in hell thing).
The language of prophecy is not about what will happen, no matter what you do. It is about exhorting people to make something come true, by doing what the prophecy says. For example, there is a prophecy in the OT that the Messiah will enter Jerusalem on a donkey. Jesus knew of this prophecy, and knew that the Hebrews would know it as well. That is why, before entering Jerusalem, he instructed his disciples to precede him and procure him such an animal, that he might fulfill the prophecy. The point of the story being that Jesus thereby gave a sign by which the Hebrews would know that their deliverer had arrived, riding into town humbly, not in glory like a prelate in a golden litter.
The Book of Revelation can be read in the same way, as an allegory laying out a spiritual path, with it’s several snares and pitfalls (hubris, pride, spiritual materialism, delusion, etc).
@kellyjay saidI don't think everybody is evil. You don't speak for everyone when you claim that.
You can speak for yourself if you like but you absolutely speak to and for everyone when you make claims about what is good or right and what isn’t. We call people murders who murder, liars those who lie.
Do you ever condemn or find fault in others, do you know anyone without faults? Do you believe that there are good people who only do good, and bad people who only do ...[text shortened]... claim you want, simply because you know you are not going to explain yourself when your questioned.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSo you are saying that there are people who only do good never anything evil? You don’t have an issue saying some are evil, what is the difference, some have the capability and don’t ever do anything wrong, some are free from the ability to do wrong? What do you use for your distribution of good and bad?
I don't think everybody is evil. You don't speak for everyone when you claim that.
Biblically we all have fallen short, we all have sinned which is to say done evil things. We are capable of both, but that means we can and will if the right motivation is there to entice us, just a little justification is all it takes to excuse what we want from time to time.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidGod had his people to move out of Egypt and on to the promised land.
God frequently violates man's freewill, if scripture is to be believed. Take, for example, God hardening the Pharaoh's heart.
He couldn't be wasting time waiting for the guy to finally decide what he was always going to decide anyways. That ship had figuratively sailed. Lives were at stake.
@kellyjay saidContradicting to your comfortable status quo.
“A” does not ever equal “not A” at the same time and place referring to the same thing. Contradictions arises when we hold two thoughts at that are at odds with each other as true at the same time.
So when we can make a statement where both truth and false statements must equally be acceptable from one another there is a real issue there. A man is a man, a woman is a wo ...[text shortened]... nto a feeling any man can have, nothing special about women now, any thought can make a man a woman.
Why do you think it SO outrageous that a person may want their body to agree with their mind? You then assign to them motives which they do not have. All because they violate your comfortable status quo by merely existing. But you don't want to look like a monster, and so you call them the monster.
Where in all this is there room to actually love thy neighbor? Much less to love them as one loves themself.
It runs down to selfishness. They make you uncomfortable because you do not understand them. People often fear that which they do not understand, and so you make literal monsters out of them to get others to validate your fears, your discomfort. Never mind their motivations, their goals. Better to make those evil in your mind. Not exactly loving your neighbor, there, eh?
Whatever happened to placing yourself in their shoes? But that would mean making an effort to understand that which you fear. Unreasoning fear and lashing out at that fear is so easy. Actual understanding and conquering fear is the harder road, and few people feel the effort is worth it. This is the road we find ourselves on, these days.
@suzianne saidWell I am under the opinion God made us male and female. So A versus Not A comes into play, feelings leading the way for our outcome results takes us into many ruined marriages, friendships, relationships, lives endings, mutilation of bodies and on an on. If you are going to suggest that if an error of that magnitude was made by God not man, I have to ask why do you think that?
Contradicting to your comfortable status quo.
Why do you think it SO outrageous that a person may want their body to agree with their mind? You then assign to them motives which they do not have. All because they violate your comfortable status quo by merely existing. But you don't want to look like a monster, and so you call them the monster.
Where in all this is t ...[text shortened]... oad, and few people feel the effort is worth it. This is the road we find ourselves on, these days.
You should check yourself I have not called anyone a monster! Please use the things I have said, calling a man a man is not calling anyone a monster unless that is how you view men.
@suzianne saidThat said, He did override the Pharaoh's free will. (Which was my point).
God had his people to move out of Egypt and on to the promised land.
He couldn't be wasting time waiting for the guy to finally decide what he was always going to decide anyways. That ship had figuratively sailed. Lives were at stake.
The reason this point is important is because if God can (when He sees fit) override human free will (as he did with the Pharaoh, whatever the reason) then why doesn't He override human free will to prevent suffering of the innocent?
The free will defence is frequently used by theists to account for the lack of divine interference, and present it as something God will not violate. Scripture however shows clearly that God can and has overridden human free will.
You seem to have highlighted divine impatience as a valid reason for God to override human free will. Is that the only valid reason?
@kellyjay saidNobody is perfect Kelly. That doesn't make us all evil.
So you are saying that there are people who only do good never anything evil? You don’t have an issue saying some are evil, what is the difference, some have the capability and don’t ever do anything wrong, some are free from the ability to do wrong? What do you use for your distribution of good and bad?
Biblically we all have fallen short, we all have sinned which is t ...[text shortened]... to entice us, just a little justification is all it takes to excuse what we want from time to time.
I think you would be more content in life if you realised that.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNo one is perfect is correct, what is perfection, goodness, righteousness, and the list goes on, we fall short. So what then are we, if not perfect, good, or righteous, it seems you know, we are all quite capable of doing good and evil things, the good we do doesn't eliminate the bad we do, it simply shows us how flawed we are. Even acknowledging we do evil things you simply don't want to admit it while you are admitting it.
Nobody is perfect Kelly. That doesn't make us all evil.
I think you would be more content in life if you realised that.
@kellyjay saidI don't think the word "evil" - coming from you - has practical meaning because of the way you use it. You said in 2022 that raping a woman is equally as evil as saying something unkind to someone in an online conversation. You have steadfastly refused to discuss any definition of "evil" other than your own. I don't think you have credibility as a thinker on the topic of "evil".
No one is perfect is correct, what is perfection, goodness, righteousness, and the list goes on, we fall short. So what then are we, if not perfect, good, or righteous, it seems you know, we are all quite capable of doing good and evil things, the good we do doesn't eliminate the bad we do, it simply shows us how flawed we are. Even acknowledging we do evil things you simply don't want to admit it while you are admitting it.