Free Will

@rajk999 said
You need to learn to write properly. All that mumbo jumbo means nothing. Im guessing that you are disappointed that I am not a bible worshipper like yourself.

Well, you are on your own there. I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ and I stop there. Jesus Christ is eternal life. Clearly you disagree because you never quote the words of Christ. So we are opposites.

If you believed in the teachings of Jesus Christ you accept where you get them from, you don't so stop lying.

@kellyjay said
If you believed in the teachings of Jesus Christ you accept where you get them from, you don't so stop lying.

The bible which you worship is not the word of God. Man has manipulated it over and over again to the point where different versions are contradictory.

The teachings of Jesus are clear and conforms to the commandments God has written into the heart of all men... maybe you are an exception or maybe Satan has overcome you and you are not able to tell right from wrong or good from evil. I can.

Neither did I need Jesus to tell me what is right from wrong. I, and many others knew that as childen. In fact, the words of Jesus are simply confirmation that my mind and my knowledge of good and evil are completely in sync with His. This comforting and reassuring, particularly the statements by Christ that it is those who keep the commandments get eternal life... I dont need to read or know anything else.

You must be in a really bad place to not have that comfort, and this shows because you constantly try to defend what you believe about the bible. People say the bible has certain contradictions [and this is very true], you go after that and spend years trying to defend the bible. You are a madman.

Clearly you are at war with yourself, and it shows by your constant venom with those at peace with the teachings of Christ, which you never promote. All of these problems you have are caused by the church, which has messed up your mind. Sad.

@rajk999 said
The bible which you worship is not the word of God. Man has manipulated it over and over again to the point where different versions are contradictory.

The teachings of Jesus are clear and conforms to the commandments God has written into the heart of all men... maybe you are an exception or maybe Satan has overcome you and you are not able to tell right from wrong or goo ...[text shortened]... mote. All of these problems you have are caused by the church, which has messed up your mind. Sad.

I don’t worship the Bible another piece of your delusional take on things. God has spoken to us in many ways and the written word has been one since the beginning. Even in your delusional view you quote scripture to prove your point because you know it carries more weight than your personal views on any topic, yet you deny it any way as not important to you showing how delusional you are.

Using the thing that isn’t important to you to justify yourself and condemn others. You have a conflict with the text you say isn’t important, while relying on what it says. The truth is not in you!

@kellyjay said
I don’t worship the Bible another piece of your delusional take on things. God has spoken to us in many ways and the written word has been one since the beginning. Even in your delusional view you quote scripture to prove your point because you know it carries more weight than your personal views on any topic, yet you deny it any way as not important to you showing how delus ...[text shortened]... lict with the text you say isn’t important, while relying on what it says. The truth is not in you!

There are several people here who have expressed no belief in any God, but they know in sufficient detail the teachings of Christ and who have acknowledged that these principles Laid down by Christ represent a good code of conduct and high moral values, and even said they try to fashion their lives after some of these teachings.

Strangely you, a professed faithful Christian have never once promoted or supported these teachings of Christ, neither referenced them or advised others to adhere to them. Yet your focus is on the bible, over which you are prepared to argue for another several years if I allow you to.

@divegeester said
I mused on page one of this thread if you would have anything to say about the “five proofs” that there is no hell as detailed in the link posted on page one by “account suspended”.

Any thoughts on those?

KellyJay…

Come on, let’s see that pout replaced with your lovely smile 😊

@rajk999 said
There are several people here who have expressed no belief in any God, but they know in sufficient detail the teachings of Christ and who have acknowledged that these principles Laid down by Christ represent a good code of conduct and high moral values, and even said they try to fashion their lives after some of these teachings.

Strangely you, a professed faithful Christ ...[text shortened]... s is on the bible, over which you are prepared to argue for another several years if I allow you to.

It isn't principles it is the blood of Jesus Christ that saves us of our sins, I don't care how carefully you order your life to do good works it will never be good enough outside of Jesus Christ. Human beings acting out of our nature have done horrific things to one another, and are continuing to do horrific things to one another, and all of us have it in us to be both the victim and the perpetrator.

Some like to call other people Nazis because they think we think that what they did was inhuman as if using that name justifies the name caller and belittles the one being called that. They act as if what the Nazis did was somehow not a normal thing that people do, surely only the worst of us. Not true it is a human thing we do, and it has been repeated in kind throughout all of our history. Get some people to hate others and the next thing you know we can do what we want to them, they deserve it. Being human means that we are capable of being that bad because that is who we are outside of Christ.

Riots have people harming others, destroying property, and on and on it is human, this is humanity acting out in rage, malice, and hate. We all have this in us, and this is what God is redeeming when He saves us, sinners! There are no good people who earn their way into God's Kindom, that is an arrogant delusional thing to think that is possible. What is going on is a good God saving evil people from sin who don't deserve salvation, we look at God's grace and justifiably cry out saying look at those God saves, that can't be right, they don't deserve it! They are right too in saying that, none of us deserve it, which is why God's grace is so amazing. including how He did it in such a way all of His nature's holiness, righteousness, and goodness were satisfied while He justified sinners like us.

@kellyjay said
I don't care how carefully you order your life to do good works it will never be good enough outside of Jesus Christ.

And where did Jesus say this?

@kellyjay said
Some like to call other people Nazis because they think we think that what they did was inhuman as if using that name justifies the name caller and belittles the being called that. They act as if what the Nazis did was somehow not a normal thing that people do, surely only the worst of us. Not true it is a human thing we do, and it has been repeated in kind throughout all of ...[text shortened]... eing human means that we are capable of being that bad because that is who we are outside of Christ.

It seems you need to daub your walls with industrial-grade misanthropy in order to make sense of the world.

Being human means that we are capable of being that bad because that is who we are outside of Christ.

Humans are also capable of good. Jesus is said to have given commandments as to what he deemed to be good and therefore what it is humans should do. I scarcely recall you talking about this. But hey, talk about the Nazis instead, yowzah!

Is Christianity about:

[1] Striving to live as good a life as you can in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, and struggle as hard as you can to live up to the sacrifice of a man who was basically executed for his message about what living "as good a life as you can" entails? Or...

[2] Droning on and on and on and on, day in day out, year in year out, about how awful humans are and coopting the idea of "Jesus" as something that makes it easier to deal with the world, with immortality thrown in for good measure?

@fmf said
The notion that someone can be culpable - and therefore deserve punishment - for not believing claims that others make about supernatural beings and phenomena is morally incoherent.

OP: The notion that someone can be culpable - and therefore deserve punishment - for not believing claims that others make about supernatural beings and phenomena is morally incoherent.

Is the notion that someone can be culpable - i.e guilty and deserving of punishment - for not believing the claims that KellyJay makes about what it means to follow Jesus [and perhaps lean towards the claims made by Rajk999 about what following Jesus means]... is this 'culpability/punishment' thing morally coherent?

@kellyjay said
I don't care how carefully you order your life to do good works it will never be good enough outside of Jesus Christ.

Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

Luke chapter 9 verses 49-50

@fmf said
Is Christianity about:

[1] Striving to live as good a life as you can in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, and struggle as hard as you can to live up to the sacrifice of a man who was basically executed for his message about what living "as good a life as you can" entails? Or...

[2] Droning on and on and on and on, day in day out, year in year out, about how awful hum ...[text shortened]... something that makes it easier to deal with the world, with immortality thrown in for good measure?

Jesus wants people to do #1, but Christianity ignores Jesus and does #2.

There are lots of 'good' Christians.

@kellyjay said
It isn't principles it is the blood of Jesus Christ that saves us of our sins, I don't care how carefully you order your life to do good works it will never be good enough outside of Jesus Christ. Human beings acting out of our nature have done horrific things to one another, and are continuing to do horrific things to one another, and all of us have it in us to be both the ...[text shortened]... is nature's holiness, righteousness, and goodness were satisfied while He justified sinners like us.

Church rubbish... nothing from the teachings of Christ.

@rajk999 said
Jesus wants people to do #1, but Christianity ignores Jesus and does #2.

There are lots of 'good' Christians.

God is required for us to know God, God is required for us to even do the works of God. When Jesus became a man, He did not walk around doing things as God, instead, He did the works of the Father as the Father led Him, as we are told to do. When Jesus left, He told us that the Holy Spirit would come, and with God's Spirit can now cause us to know God. Without the Holy Spirit, you do not belong to God and all of your good works are just that, your works. We receive the grace of God through faith, it is from God we do not generate that on our own. You ignore the scriptures because they show you for the proud arrogant person you are thinking you are working your way into God's favor, no one is good save God and you put away His word to push your own agenda.

@kellyjay said
God is required for us to know God, God is required for us to even do the works of God. When Jesus became a man, He did not walk around doing things as God, instead, He did the works of the Father as the Father led Him, as we are told to do. When Jesus left, He told us that the Holy Spirit would come, and with God's Spirit can now cause us to know God. Without the Holy Spiri ...[text shortened]... our way into God's favor, no one is good save God and you put away His word to push your own agenda.

Church rubbish... nothing from the teachings of Christ.
Like I said, you church Christians ignore Jesus.
Tell me what Jesus said.