Free Will

@rajk999 said
The situation with liars is among the most dire in the whole bible:

[i]These six things doth the LORD hate:
yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look,
a lying tongue, and
hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and
he that soweth dis ...[text shortened]... hese and claim their sins are forgiven ie they can do whatever they want and still get eternal life.

I think it is erroneous to think Jesus did away with the 10 Commandments and that the modern Christian can simply ignore what is said about lying in the OT.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think it is erroneous to think Jesus did away with the 10 Commandments and that the modern Christian can simply ignore what is said about lying in the OT.

Its worse than that. They think that the death and resurrectiion of Jesus did away with the 10 commandments PLUS removed the consequences of all their sin. That is why they claim that because they profess faith, they can do whatever they want and they will still get eternal life.

This they refer to as the New Covenant where the Old is done away with. They have no laws to follow and their faith guarantees a place in the Kingdom of God.

If that were the truth then after Jesus rose from the dead, His doctrine would have changed. But it did not. In Revelation [the reference you quoted] it is clear that in the end all evil people regardless of their professions of faith, will be destroyed.

@rajk999 said
Its worse than that. They think that the death and resurrectiion of Jesus did away with the 10 commandments PLUS removed the consequences of all their sin. That is why they claim that because they profess faith, they can do whatever they want and they will still get eternal life.

This they refer to as the New Covenant where the Old is done away with. They have no laws to ...[text shortened]... s clear that in the end all evil people regardless of their professions of faith, will be destroyed.

<<They think that the death and resurrectiion of Jesus did away with the 10 commandments PLUS removed the consequences of all their sin.>>

There are earthly consequences to sin.

If someone remains a habitual sinner after believing in Jesus Christ, if there’s no change in their behavior over time, then that’s an indication their belief was purely an intellectual belief and not a saving heart belief.

<<That is why they claim that because they profess faith, they can do whatever they want and they will still get eternal life.>>

You’re another one whose focus is only on eternal life. There’s much more to a relationship with Jesus Christ than that.

<<This they refer to as the New Covenant where the Old is done away with. They have no laws to follow and their faith guarantees a place in the Kingdom of God.>>

Exactly!!! We (Christians) are not under the Law. But we follow the Law (as best we can) out of love and respect for our Savior. Will we stumble? Sure. The Apostle Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament, said as much in Romans 7 and Galatians.

<<If that were the truth then after Jesus rose from the dead, His doctrine would have changed. But it did not.>>

You mean His doctrine as expressed in John 11:25, John 6:40, John 8:24? You’re right. That didn’t change. Remember the Holy Spirit, which indwells believers and changes them from the inside out (heart transformation that leads to behavior modification) didn’t arrive for believers until after Jesus Christ was Resurrected and ascended to Heaven.

Man proved repeatedly that he can’t keep the commandments on his own.

<<In Revelation [the reference you quoted] it is clear that in the end all evil people regardless of their professions of faith, will be destroyed.>>

That verse was referring to unbelievers - those who rejected Jesus Christ.

@rajk999 said
Its worse than that. They think that the death and resurrectiion of Jesus did away with the 10 commandments PLUS removed the consequences of all their sin. That is why they claim that because they profess faith, they can do whatever they want and they will still get eternal life.

This they refer to as the New Covenant where the Old is done away with. They have no laws to ...[text shortened]... s clear that in the end all evil people regardless of their professions of faith, will be destroyed.

It's as if they have no real comprehension of scripture.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It's as if they have no real comprehension of scripture.

It’s atheists who can’t comprehend Scripture.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

(1 Corinthians 2:14)

It is the “natural man” who also prefers a lie to the truth.

Your tongue devises destruction
like a sharpened razor,
O worker of deceit.
You love evil more than good,
falsehood more than speaking truth.

Psalm 52: 2-3

@plantermoo said
It’s atheists who can’t comprehend Scripture.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

(1 Corinthians 2:14)

'It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

Matthew 15:11 ESV

'God, our genes, our environment, or some stupid programmer keying in code at an ancient terminal - there's no way free will can ever exist if we as individuals are the result of some external cause.'

Orson Scott Card

@rajk999 said
Its worse than that. They think that the death and resurrectiion of Jesus did away with the 10 commandments PLUS removed the consequences of all their sin. That is why they claim that because they profess faith, they can do whatever they want and they will still get eternal life.

This they refer to as the New Covenant where the Old is done away with. They have no laws to ...[text shortened]... s clear that in the end all evil people regardless of their professions of faith, will be destroyed.

I see you are once again speaking as if you care what the scriptures say, deceiver.

@kellyjay said
I see you are once again speaking as if you care what the scriptures say, deceiver.

I believe Rajk is providing his understanding of scripture. Your 'deceiver' quip is an unnecessary low blow. One could easily accuse you of the same, based on the interpretation you proffer.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I believe Rajk is providing his understanding of scripture. Your 'deceiver' quip is an unnecessary low blow. One could easily accuse you of the same, based on the interpretation you proffer.

Indeed. Notice how he will refuse to speak on the topic at hand. KJ is a bible worshipper, while I take the words of Christ as the gospel, so we will never see eye to eye. The bible that he worships only surfaced about 400 years ago. That means people before that were totally lost, and will all be tormented according to him.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I believe Rajk is providing his understanding of scripture. Your 'deceiver' quip is an unnecessary low blow. One could easily accuse you of the same, based on the interpretation you proffer.

I'm sure he is acceptable to you.

@rajk999 said
Indeed. Notice how he will refuse to speak on the topic at hand. KJ is a bible worshipper, while I take the words of Christ as the gospel, so we will never see eye to eye. The bible that he worships only surfaced about 400 years ago. That means people before that were totally lost, and will all be tormented according to him.

Deciever, you speak out of both sides of your mouth.

@kellyjay said
Deciever, you speak out of both sides of your mouth.

Your anger is understandable. The bible you worship did not exist in the time of Jesus and the Aposltes.

@rajk999 said
Your anger is understandable. The bible you worship did not exist in the time of Jesus and the Aposltes.

It is Jesus the living Word I worship, but the written Word is from God too, and you trash it and use it at the same time, double-minded and deceiver you are.