Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscribersonhouse
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    08 Nov '19 00:39
    @Metal-Brain
    Intellectually lazy to the end. You always want other folks to do your research for you so you can just dis it instead of finding it yourself and actually having to read it.
    You fool nobody.
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    08 Nov '19 00:451 edit
    @sonhouse said
    @Metal-Brain
    Intellectually lazy to the end. You always want other folks to do your research for you so you can just dis it instead of finding it yourself and actually having to read it.
    You fool nobody.
    I am right. Do you think if you pretend otherwise you can fool yourself into thinking you are not wrong? You are like suzi, unable to see reality.

    https://www.theblaze.com/glenn-beck-special/ukraine-do-not-prosecute-list

    You fool nobody!
  3. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Nov '19 01:11
    @philokalia said
    I love the excitement behind posts like this.

    The president is interested in targeting the corruption of powerful Americans abroad, and now it's completely and totally a crime to work towards having our allied governments investigate it.

    It's a hanging offense, dontcha know.
    No one is buying the Trump as a fearless opponent of "corruption" shtick.
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    08 Nov '19 02:55
    @no1marauder said
    No one is buying the Trump as a fearless opponent of "corruption" shtick.
    no one is buying your BS!
  5. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
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    08 Nov '19 04:01
    @mott-the-hoople said
    no one is buying your BS!
    It’s trump’s own BS.

    Stop foistering around the bloody forum!
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Nov '19 14:41
    Rudy admits that what he was doing in the Ukraine was for Trump's personal benefit:

    The investigation I conducted concerning 2016 Ukrainian collusion and corruption, was done solely as a defense attorney to defend my client against false charges, that kept changing as one after another were disproven.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/giuliani-ukraine-quid-pro-quo-intended-to-benefit-trump-personally

    It's getting a bit much even for the right wingers at the Washington Examiner. From the article cited:

    Furthermore, Trump's personal legal defense should not involve using the powers of the presidency — potentially without the property security clearances — to gain exculpatory evidence.

    For a personal attorney to use congressionally approved aid to advance a president's personal interests over national interests is unconscionable. If Trump signed off on that, then yes, it's clearly an impeachable abuse of power that proves he's willing to illicitly interfere with the 2020 election.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    08 Nov '19 15:27
    @Metal-Brain
    Right. We are supposed to believe an ultrarightwingnut like Beck. Is that your best shot? You don't seem like the brightest bulb in the chandelier.....
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Nov '19 20:59
    @philokalia said
    I love the excitement behind posts like this.

    The president is interested in targeting the corruption of powerful Americans abroad, and now it's completely and totally a crime to work towards having our allied governments investigate it.

    It's a hanging offense, dontcha know.
    From the sworn testimony of Alexander Vindman:

    ""It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the gain would be for the president in investigating the son of a political opponent," Vindman said."

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/08/alexander-vindman-impeachment-testimony-released-067872
  9. Germany
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    08 Nov '19 21:26
    @no1marauder said
    No one is buying the Trump as a fearless opponent of "corruption" shtick.
    Well, except for 50 million Americans.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Nov '19 21:361 edit
    @metal-brain said
    I am right. Do you think if you pretend otherwise you can fool yourself into thinking you are not wrong? You are like suzi, unable to see reality.

    https://www.theblaze.com/glenn-beck-special/ukraine-do-not-prosecute-list

    You fool nobody!
    The Unian story clearly refutes Lutsenko's claim supposedly given to Solomon that Ambassador Yovanovitch gave him a "do not prosecute list":

    "I took a piece of paper, put down the listed names and said: 'Give me a do not prosecute list.' She said: "No, you got me wrong.' I said: "No, I didn't get you wrong. Such lists were earlier drawn up on Bankova Street [the presidential administration's address, Lutsenko meant the Yanukovych administration], and now you give new lists on Tankova Street [the former name of Sikorsky Street, where the U.S. Embassy is located]. The meeting ended. I'm afraid the emotions were not very good," Lutsenko gave the details of his meeting with the ambassador."

    https://www.unian.info/politics/10520715-ukraine-prosecutor-general-lutsenko-admits-u-s-ambassador-didn-t-give-him-a-do-not-prosecute-list.html

    So no such list was ever provided written or verbally. Beck is full of it as usual.

    EDIT: And this meeting between Lutsenko and Ambassador Yovanovitch took place in January 2017 long after Shokin's firing, so I don't see how it is relevant at all. Supposedly Yovanovitch expressed concern about investigations against Ukrainian anti-corruption activists but what this has to do with any of this is puzzling in the extreme.
  11. Joined
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    08 Nov '19 23:47
    @no1marauder said
    From the sworn testimony of Alexander Vindman:

    ""It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the gain would be for the president in investigating the son of a political opponent," Vindman said."

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/08/alexander-vindman-impeachment-testimony-released-067872
    but it would take a rocket scientist to see how joe stopping the investigator helped his son though, right?
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Nov '19 23:52
    @mott-the-hoople said
    but it would take a rocket scientist to see how joe stopping the investigator helped his son though, right?
    The investigation that didn't exist?
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 00:28
    @mott-the-hoople said
    but it would take a rocket scientist to see how joe stopping the investigator helped his son though, right?
    "Vitaliy Kasko, a former deputy prosecutor general who had worked under Shokin and resigned in frustration at his stymying of corruption investigations, told Bloomberg News (in a May 2019 interview) that the office’s probe into Burisma Holdings had been long dormant by the time Joe Biden issued his ultimatum in 2016. “There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against” Burisma owner Zlochevskiy, Bloomberg quoted Kasko as saying. “It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015,” Kasko said.

    “Shokin was not investigating. He didn’t want to investigate Burisma,” Daria Kaleniuk a leading Ukrainian anti-corruption advocate, told the Washington Post. “And Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.”

    https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/
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    09 Nov '19 01:17
    @no1marauder said
    The Unian story clearly refutes Lutsenko's claim supposedly given to Solomon that Ambassador Yovanovitch gave him a "do not prosecute list":

    "I took a piece of paper, put down the listed names and said: 'Give me a do not prosecute list.' She said: "No, you got me wrong.' I said: "No, I didn't get you wrong. Such lists were earlier drawn up on Bankova Street [the presid ...[text shortened]... inian anti-corruption activists but what this has to do with any of this is puzzling in the extreme.
    A list was provided. You are full of it as usual.

    https://www.theblaze.com/glenn-beck-special/ukraine-do-not-prosecute-list
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Nov '19 02:162 edits
    @metal-brain said
    A list was provided. You are full of it as usual.

    https://www.theblaze.com/glenn-beck-special/ukraine-do-not-prosecute-list
    No, it wasn't and nothing in your article shows there was. Even if you accept Lutsenko's version in the Unian article, it only shows that the Ambassador questioned some prosecutions and Lutsenko, in a rhetorical flourish, told her to provide a list similar to ones provided in the old regime. And she clearly says "You got me wrong" and does not.
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