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@metal-brain saidThat isn't what I meant and you know it.
All scientist do not disagree with each other all the time.
You are arguing the toss over trivial semantics yet again.
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@metal-brain saidhttps://www.lexico.com/definition/hyperbole
So I should read what you mean and not what you write?
You are arguing that your errors are meaningless and should be overlooked. Another double standard from you.
Apparently you haven't yet learned of this.
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@humy saidYou avoided my question by falsely claiming I avoided a question that you never asked.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/hyperbole
Apparently you haven't yet learned of this.
Who disagreed with Brian Greene's assertion that time dilation causes gravity other than you?
Why would time dilation be the result of gravity? You keep avoiding that question as well. Admit you have no idea. Don't bluff and make a fool out of yourself again. You keep doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. That is insanity.
@metal-brain saidMany scientists.
Who disagreed with Brian Greene's assertion that time dilation causes gravity other than you?
-next stupid question...
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@metal-brain saidI do not know of any one specific such scientists but I do know it is inevitable some would disagree so because scientists have a vast range of diverse and conflicting opinions about just about everything and only someone, just like you, who is completely ignorant of the world science would think otherwise.
Name one scientist.
Name all the scientists that you know of that said they agree with every assertion he made.
If you can't, how do you know that they all must agree with every assertion he made?
There would inevitably be very few if any well know scientists that didn't once assert something that at least some other scientist disagrees with.
And, contrary what you implied, a scientific fact isn't defined by how 'respected' the scientist was who said it but rather is defined by the evidence and nothing else. And before you moronically shout your usual "LIAR", read this and tell me where it says/implies the contrary;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact#In_science
"In science, a fact is a repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experimentation or other means)
...
a scientific fact is an objective and verifiable observation,
..."
-well no mention of involvement of 'respected' scientists there!
@humy saidTry and find a credible opinion opposing him. It does not exist.
I do not know of any one specific such scientists but I do know it is inevitable some would disagree so because scientists have a vast range of diverse and conflicting opinions about just about everything and only someone, just like you, who is completely ignorant of the world science would think otherwise.
Name all the scientists that you know of that said they agree with ever ...[text shortened]... nd verifiable observation,
..."
-well no mention of involvement of 'respected' scientists there!
@Metal-Brain
Tell my your logic in assigning time dilation as the cause of gravity.
This should be interesting. BTW, according to BB theory, at the moment all that happened, time dilation and gravity happened together so how do you separate which is cause and which is effect?
@metal-brain saidHere is just one source from tons of sources on the web.
"Time dilation is a relativistic effect of gravity, not a cause."
What is your source of information? I provided my source. Brian Greene is a highly respected physicist. Are you claiming he is wrong?
"Understanding Time Dilation Effects in Physics"
https://www.thoughtco.com/time-dilation-2699324
Time Dilation Effects. Time dilation is an effect, not a cause.
You would do well to try to grasp what the concept of Relativity really means.
Gravitational time dilation is described in GR. Relative velocity time dilation is described in SR.
But, everyone BUT YOU knows this.
Here, for God's sake, educate yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation
You're welcome.
Please pay special attention to this bit: "The Global Positioning System can be considered a continuously operating experiment in both special and general relativity. The in-orbit clocks are corrected for both special and general relativistic time dilation effects as described above, so that (as observed from the earth's surface) they run at the same rate as clocks on the surface of the Earth."
Before you ask, the source for this is this: Kaplan, Elliott; Hegarty, Christopher (2005). Understanding GPS: Principles and Applications. Artech House. p. 306. ISBN 978-1-58053-895-4.
Again, you're welcome.
@sonhouse saidIndeed, I do not see how time dilation described by two clocks at differing distances from a gravity well actually CAUSES the gravity of the gravity well.
@Metal-Brain
Tell my your logic in assigning time dilation as the cause of gravity.
This should be interesting. BTW, according to BB theory, at the moment all that happened, time dilation and gravity happened together so how do you separate which is cause and which is effect?
It's an asinine idea, put forth by a brain (a metal brain? ) with an insufficient knowledge of the concept. Come on, MB, pick up any physics book written anytime in the last hundred years.
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@humy saidYes, I'm aware of this and I was aware of this long before MB. I majored in Psych. I read Dunning's study when it came out, as well as numerous papers since then. In 2011, he wrote, "Specifically, for any given skill, some people have more expertise and some have less, some a good deal less. What about those people with low levels of expertise? Do they recognize it? According to the argument presented here, people with substantial deficits in their knowledge or expertise should not be able to recognize those deficits. Despite potentially making error after error, they should tend to think they are doing just fine. In short, those who are incompetent, for lack of a better term, should have little insight into their incompetence—an assertion that has come to be known as the Dunning–Kruger effect."
You sure got that right!
I believe this applies to him and, incidentally, also Donald Trump;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
I find that makes quite interesting reading.
He just trotted it out as one more "sounds good" thing he thinks describes his problems in this forum. It does, but not in the way he thinks it does.
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@suzianne saidTime dilation from mass is a cause of gravity. Time dilation from velocity is the opposite. Like sonhouse you are using velocity to obfuscate by claiming two different things have to have the same cause and effect. They don't.
Here is just one source from tons of sources on the web.
"Understanding Time Dilation Effects in Physics"
https://www.thoughtco.com/time-dilation-2699324
Time Dilation Effects. Time dilation is an effect, not a cause.
You would do well to try to grasp what the concept of Relativity really means.
Gravitational time dilation is described in GR. Relative v ...[text shortened]... Principles and Applications. Artech House. p. 306. ISBN 978-1-58053-895-4.
Again, you're welcome.
See the equivalence principle. Velocity can slow time so the time dilation is an effect of velocity, that is correct. Time dilation here on earth is (primarily) "caused" by matter and "is" the force of gravity.
In my many posts about time dilation I pointed out that I used the word "cause" loosely because one could argue they are the same thing.
Time dilation from matter is gravity, it is NOT the result of gravity. Nobody on here will explain why time dilation would result from gravity because nobody has ever tried to explain something that is NOT compatible with GR and Einstein never proposed such an idiotic idea.
The whole foundation of Einstein's GR is based on time dilation causing attraction, not resulting from it.
Brian Greene made it clear in "Light Falls" that "things don't like to age, the math shows objects move to where time passes slower". Brian Greene is clearly saying time dilation is causing the attraction of matter (gravitational time dilation) to other matter, not resulting from gravity.
GPS doesn't need GR to work. Time differences of the receivers are adjusted to the atomic clocks on the satellites. I already proved GPS doesn't need GR equations to function accurately.
@suzianne saidI pointed out that they have the Dunning–Kruger effect. They merely said it was the other way around. They are not very original.
Yes, I'm aware of this and I was aware of this long before MB. I majored in Psych. I read Dunning's study when it came out, as well as numerous papers since then. In 2011, he wrote, "Specifically, for any given skill, some people have more expertise and some have less, some a good deal less. What about those people with low levels of expertise? Do they recognize it? Accor ...[text shortened]... hing he thinks describes his problems in this forum. It does, but not in the way he thinks it does.
Am not, you are! (pout like a child)
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@sonhouse saidTime dilation is gravity. They are the same thing.
@Metal-Brain
Tell my your logic in assigning time dilation as the cause of gravity.
This should be interesting. BTW, according to BB theory, at the moment all that happened, time dilation and gravity happened together so how do you separate which is cause and which is effect?
Like I said before many times, I'm using the word "cause" loosely. Don't take it too literally.
Time dilation is the bending of space-time. They are also the same thing. Saying time dilation causes gravity is the same thing as saying the bending of space-time causes gravity. Again, I'm using the term "cause" loosely. They are the same thing.
Now do you understand?