@metal-brain saidFalse claim? They don't understand GR? Clearly YOU don't understand GR.
You did, not Einstein. So did sonhouse, kazet, deepthought and others with a Dunning–Kruger effect. You all made the false claim because you don't understand GR. You all had it backwards and insisted you were all right when you were all wrong.
Time Dilation causes gravity? Now that has got to be the most stupid thing you've ever said in these forums and that's saying a LOT. Time dilation is a relativistic effect of gravity, not a cause.
"You all made the false claim because you don't understand GR. You all had it backwards and insisted you were all right when you were all wrong."
This is you in a nutshell.
Damn, I'm no physics genius to be sure, but even I took enough science courses in school to know this.
And you have the huevos to mention the Dunning-Kruger effect? My degree is in Psych, and you are the master poster child for D-K effect in these forums. Your entire M.O. here is a cognitive bias of illusory superiority. In their landmark 1999 study, Dunning and Kruger said: "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others." Dunning also said in 2005, "If you're incompetent, you can't know you're incompetent... The skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is."
Give it up, MB, no one here has your cognitive bias that you even know what you are talking about, much less that you have some sort of superiority of knowledge over others.
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@suzianne saidYou sure got that right!
Your entire M.O. here is a cognitive bias of illusory superiority.
I believe this applies to him and, incidentally, also Donald Trump;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
I find that makes quite interesting reading.
@suzianne said"Time dilation is a relativistic effect of gravity, not a cause."
False claim? They don't understand GR? Clearly YOU don't understand GR.
Time Dilation causes gravity? Now that has got to be the most stupid thing you've ever said in these forums and that's saying a LOT. Time dilation is a relativistic effect of gravity, not a cause.
[b]"You all made the false claim because you don't understand GR. You all had it backwards and ins ...[text shortened]... at you are talking about, much less that you have some sort of superiority of knowledge over others.
What is your source of information? I provided my source. Brian Greene is a highly respected physicist. Are you claiming he is wrong?
@metal-brain saidWhy cannot a "highly respected physicist" be credibly wrong?
"Brian Greene is a highly respected physicist. Are you claiming he is wrong?
It often happens that a scientist is wrong and regardless of how "respected" he might be.
What you don't ever get is that what are the scientific facts is not defined as whatever assertions a 'highly respected' scientist makes but rather is defined by the scientific evidence and nothing more.
Thus how 'respected' he is is totally irrelavent to that.
@humy saidNobody is claiming Brian Greene is wrong but you. "Light Falls" aired on PBS. Why don't you write PBS and tell them one of the most prominent physicists in the world doesn't know what he is talking about.
Why cannot a "highly respected physicist" be credibly wrong?
It often happens that a scientist is wrong and regardless of how "respected" he might be.
What you don't ever get is that what are the scientific facts is not defined as whatever assertions a 'highly respected' scientist makes but rather is defined by the scientific evidence and nothing more.
Thus how 'respected' he is is totally irrelavent to that.
http://www.briangreene.org/books-and-writings/
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@metal-brain saidIncorrect. Scientists are all disagreeing with each other all the time and there would inevitably be many scientists that disagree with some of this assertions while others agree with those same assertions. You obviously don't understand the first thing about how science works because you made it clear you think what defines a scientific fact is what some 'highly respected' scientist says when in fact that has nothing to do with it because it is only the evidence that counts, NOT the asserted opinion of some 'highly respected' scientist.
Nobody is claiming Brian Greene is wrong but you.
You still haven't answered my simple question; Why cannot a "highly respected physicist" be credibly wrong?
@humy saidYou are wrong. Time dilation causing gravity is the foundation of GR. Look at any GR equation and you will see a T for time. Nothing in those equations implies time is the result of gravity.
Incorrect. Scientists are all disagreeing with each other all the time and there would inevitably be many scientists that disagree with some of this assertions while others agree with those same assertions. You obviously don't understand the first thing about how science works because you made it clear you think what defines a scientific fact is what some 'highly respected' scie ...[text shortened]... ll haven't answered my simple question; Why cannot a "highly respected physicist" be credibly wrong?
You have your cause and effect backwards.
@Metal-Brain
You forget the M part? MASS? Part of the equations too. Time dilation due to velocity:
http://www.phy.olemiss.edu/HEP/QuarkNet/time.html
No mention of mass here because it is strictly relative velocity related.
Here is the Shwartzchild radius of a black hole:
r=2GM/c^2 no time here. only mass, gravitational constant and speed of light squared.
Here is a piece about time dilation due to closeness of a gravity well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation
So it is solving for delta t, change in time flow but the equation can be manipulated with algebra to solve for G with time in the middle. Just because we solve for change in time flow doesn't mean time flow change is the cause of gravity.
It is the other way round and all your mewling otherwise proves nothing.
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@metal-brain saidabout which of my above assertions? That scientists are all disagreeing with each other all the time? Be specific and stop changing the subject; I didn't even mention the word 'time' there.
You are wrong. .
@sonhouse saidMass causes the time dilation. Of course mass is in the equation. Time dilation from velocity is not the subject here, time dilation from matter is. This is about GR, not SR. Einstein already did SR.
@Metal-Brain
You forget the M part? MASS? Part of the equations too. Time dilation due to velocity:
http://www.phy.olemiss.edu/HEP/QuarkNet/time.html
No mention of mass here because it is strictly relative velocity related.
Here is the Shwartzchild radius of a black hole:
r=2GM/c^2 no time here. only mass, gravitational constant and speed of light squared.
...[text shortened]... e is the cause of gravity.
It is the other way round and all your mewling otherwise proves nothing.
Why in the world would you think gravity results in time dilation? Can you even explain that?
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@metal-brain saidSo you change the subject rather than answer my simple question.
Who disagreed with Brian Greene's assertion that time dilation causes gravity other than you?
This is clearly because, and contrary to your claim, you know none of my recent assertions are false.
@Metal-Brain
BECAUSE TWO THINGS CAUSE TIME DILATION. Varying gravity and VELOCITY. SAME TIME FLOW ISSUES. If TD was the cause, there would only be one effect happening but TWO separate sets of physics gives TD. So it is an EFFECT not a cause.
@sonhouse saidI'm not talking about both. I'm talking about time dilation from matter, not velocity. SR is about velocity, not GR. Stop digressing into velocity in an effort to obfuscate.
@Metal-Brain
BECAUSE TWO THINGS CAUSE TIME DILATION. Varying gravity and VELOCITY. SAME TIME FLOW ISSUES. If TD was the cause, there would only be one effect happening but TWO separate sets of physics gives TD. So it is an EFFECT not a cause.
@humy said"about which of my above assertions? That scientists are all disagreeing with each other all the time?"
about which of my above assertions? That scientists are all disagreeing with each other all the time? Be specific and stop changing the subject; I didn't even mention the word 'time' there.
That is impossible. All scientist do not disagree with each other all the time. That is the same as saying they all never agree.
"Be specific and stop changing the subject; I didn't even mention the word 'time' there."
I didn't change the subject. You are delusional. Time dilation is the subject. If you don't like time being the subject being debated stop debating it. You act as if you were forced into it.
Reality seems to elude you. Tell me why time dilation would be the result of gravity. Sonhouse will not answer the question because he cannot. Can you?