Einstein's Relativity Is Wrong?

@humy

I think it goes deeper than that. He has a definite hard on AGAINST EINSTEIN. He HAS to prove Einstein was a hack. THAT is his motivation for all this foolishness.

@humy said
And nobody here claimed the contrary.
This is just one of your many stupid straw mans that fools nobody here.

@metal-brain said
So you agree with me?

@Metal-Brain
So what the HELL are they supposed to use to calculate the time flow differences? You are not going to find that on a Dollar General calculator. I already asked you that but you deign not to answer.
TIME FLOW CHANGES HAVE TO BE CALCULATED, another FACT. Do you think they just made up the number that has to be inserted as a correction factor?
HOW DO THEY GET THAT CORRECTION FACTOR? Tell me THAT.
You know, the 39,000 odd NANOSECOND change in time ticks to account for the two relativity effects, height above ground and velocity.

@humy said
I don't agree with you that relativity could credibly be wrong.

@Metal-Brain
Tell me how they figure out just how many nanoseconds per day of compensation for the clocks. They just guess?

@sonhouse said
@Metal-Brain
Tell me how they figure out just how many nanoseconds per day of compensation for the clocks. They just guess?

@Metal-Brain

A GPS satellite
Photo courtesy U.S. Army
On the previous page, we saw that a GPS receiver calculates the distance to GPS satellites by timing a signal's journey from satellite to receiver. As it turns out, this is a fairly elaborate process.
At a particular time (let's say midnight), the satellite begins transmitting a long, digital pattern called a pseudo-random code. The receiver begins running the same digital pattern also exactly at midnight. When the satellite's signal reaches the receiver, its transmission of the pattern will lag a bit behind the receiver's playing of the pattern.

The length of the delay is equal to the signal's travel time. The receiver multiplies this time by the speed of light to determine how far the signal traveled. Assuming the signal traveled in a straight line, this is the distance from receiver to satellite.
In order to make this measurement, the receiver and satellite both need clocks that can be synchronized down to the nanosecond. To make a satellite positioning system using only synchronized clocks, you would need to have atomic clocks not only on all the satellites, but also in the receiver itself. But atomic clocks cost somewhere between $50,000 and $100,000, which makes them a just a bit too expensive for everyday consumer use.
The Global Positioning System has a clever, effective solution to this problem. Every satellite contains an expensive atomic clock, but the receiver itself uses an ordinary quartz clock, which it constantly resets. In a nutshell, the receiver looks at incoming signals from four or more satellites and gauges its own inaccuracy. In other words, there is only one value for the "current time" that the receiver can use. The correct time value will cause all of the signals that the receiver is receiving to align at a single point in space. That time value is the time value held by the atomic clocks in all of the satellites. So the receiver sets its clock to that time value, and it then has the same time value that all the atomic clocks in all of the satellites have. The GPS receiver gets atomic clock accuracy "for free."
When you measure the distance to four located satellites, you can draw four spheres that all intersect at one point. Three spheres will intersect even if your numbers are way off, but four spheres will not intersect at one point if you've measured incorrectly. Since the receiver makes all its distance measurements using its own built-in clock, the distances will all be proportionally incorrect.
The receiver can easily calculate the necessary adjustment that will cause the four spheres to intersect at one point. Based on this, it resets its clock to be in sync with the satellite's atomic clock. The receiver does this constantly whenever it's on, which means it is nearly as accurate as the expensive atomic clocks in the satellites.
In order for the distance information to be of any use, the receiver also has to know where the satellites actually are. This isn't particularly difficult because the satellites travel in very high and predictable orbits. The GPS receiver simply stores an almanac that tells it where every satellite should be at any given time. Things like the pull of the moon and the sun do change the satellites' orbits very slightly, but the Department of Defense constantly monitors their exact positions and transmits any adjustments to all GPS receivers as part of the satellites' signals.
In the next section, we'll look at errors that may occur and see how the GPS receiver corrects them.

Sorry, can't delete all the crap after this piece. It seems GPS sats have atomic clocks onboard and the ground receivers read that time from 4 sats and just uses that time hack to reset its own clock and everyone is happy. So no Einstein needed. Clever use of signals.





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@sonhouse said
@Metal-Brain

A GPS satellite
Photo courtesy U.S. Army
On the previous page, we saw that a GPS receiver calculates the distance to GPS satellites by timing a signal's journey from satellite to receiver. As it turns out, this is a fairly elaborate process.
At a particular time (let's say midnight), the satellite begins transmitting a long, digital pattern called a pse ...[text shortened]... ia Drivers With No Tickets in 3 Years Should Do This On Saturday
US Auto Insurance Now | Sponsored

@metal-brain said
You agree that GPS does not need relativity to work.

@metal-brain said
"It seems GPS sats have atomic clocks onboard and the ground receivers read that time from 4 sats and just uses that time hack to reset its own clock and everyone is happy. So no Einstein needed. Clever use of signals."

Thank you.

@humy
So the gist is ground clocks sync to sat clocks but there has to be some differences in the sat clocks so I wonder what the ground clocks do to minimize the differences? Just average them out.
The bottom line is using sat clocks and ground clocks synced to them, the time of flight and angles can be correctly calculated by the ground GPS units.
So the GROUND clocks are also 40,000 odd nanoseconds off of a ground based atomic clock but it doesn't matter for the purposes of just calculating positions since all the clocks are on the same page.

@sonhouse
But the bottom line is those sat clocks ARE 40 thousand odd nanoseconds per day off and THAT is a fact. The fact sneaky ass engineers bypassed the issue doesn't change the fact they are 49 thou nanoseconds off a clock on Earth of the same accuracy. And THAT is what big Al found with HIS use of the equations no matter WHO first put them together. NOBODY but Einstein did that, went head and shoulders over all the other dudes in that regard.

@sonhouse said
@sonhouse
But the bottom line is those sat clocks ARE 40 thousand odd nanoseconds per day off and THAT is a fact. The fact sneaky ass engineers bypassed the issue doesn't change the fact they are 49 thou nanoseconds off a clock on Earth of the same accuracy. And THAT is what big Al found with HIS use of the equations no matter WHO first put them together. NOBODY but Einstein did that, went head and shoulders over all the other dudes in that regard.