Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberno1marauder
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    07 Feb '19 22:17
    @metal-brain said
    I agree, it is ridiculous.
    He picked a black man for his Lt. Governor. In what alternate universe does that make him a racist? I think the Lt. Governor essentially said it was ridiculous as well.

    People are becoming overly sensitive and quick to judge before they know the whole story.
    Actually, he didn't pick Fairfax as his Lt. Governor; in Virginia, they run separately not as a ticket:

    The governor and lieutenant governor are elected separately and thus may be of different political parties.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant_Governor_of_Virginia
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    07 Feb '19 22:24
    @whodey said
    Dims created their own poo storm. Just pointing it out is all.

    I could personally care less if he painted his face black or pink or purple.

    What is not acceptable is replacing him with a possible sexual predator, which apparently they seem to want to do.

    But then, I'm sure his accuser is not as near as "believable" as the great DOCTOR Ford who accused Kav of sexual misconduct when he was in college.
    The hypocrisy of this post is truly stunning given your dismissal of sexual assault claims against prominent Republicans like Trump, Moore and Kavanaugh; none of whom you have ever described as "possible sexual predators" nor suggested such allegations made them unfit for office.

    Unlike you and most Republicans, Democrats support full investigations into such charges. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/us/virginia-governor-scandal.html
  3. Joined
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    07 Feb '19 22:51
    @no1marauder said
    The hypocrisy of this post is truly stunning given your dismissal of sexual assault claims against prominent Republicans like Trump, Moore and Kavanaugh; none of whom you have ever described as "possible sexual predators" nor suggested such allegations made them unfit for office.

    Unlike you and most Republicans, Democrats support full investigations into such charges. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/us/virginia-governor-scandal.html
    It was YOU and a whole host of other people demanding that Moore step aside, merely upon accusations. In fact, they have never been proved, as well as Trump and Kav.

    You are making yourself look foolish............again.
  4. Joined
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    08 Feb '19 08:34
    @duchess64 said
    "Explain why the USA supports Israel after being created by the British Empire."
    --MetalBrain

    MetalBrain apparently believes that the 'USA supports Israel' only because the UK wants the USA to do so.
    Then can MetalBrain explain away the reality that the USA supports Israel much more than the UK does?
    "Then can MetalBrain explain away the reality that the USA supports Israel much more than the UK does?"

    Yes, the USA is part of the British Empire and it is better to fool you into thinking there is an American Empire that replaced the British Empire. If you were aware that the British Empire still exists you would also become aware that the Empire consists of many more countries than you now accept. Add up the commonwealth nations along with every nation the USA invaded. Add up France colonies while you are at it. We all know that the USA colluded with France for imperialism in Vietnam and also fight in most wars the USA and UK are involved in.
    Isn't that most of the world? If people were aware that the Empire has already dominated most of the world there would be a lot more opposition to it, right? If people falsely think all of those nations are sovereign and outside any empire they will think most of the world approves of invasions, right? What better way to convince people that coalitions are a sort of good guy consensus?

    Have you ever heard people ask "if it is wrong to go to war why do so many nations support the war?"

    Coercion is often used as I pointed out with GW Bush and the Iraq war, but a lot of those nations are puppet nations. The whole goal of imperialism is to control a country after it is invaded, not set them free to be a rival later and sell oil in a currency other than the US dollar.

    Explain why the UK helps the US keep the US dollar as the world reserve currency. Shouldn't the UK be pushing the British currency instead of the US dollar? The Pound Sterling used to be the world reserve currency so they know how lucrative it can be. They don't seem to want to compete for that status though.

    The USA being a puppet nation of the British Empire explains why the British are happy with US dollar hegemony. How do you explain it?
  5. Standard membersh76
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    08 Feb '19 13:011 edit
    Naturally, as they realize that Fairfax and Herring also have their problems, the Dem call for Northam to step down has weakened and will fade to nothing (well, almost nothing - the Al Sharptons of the world will continue to call for his head). They're not going to give the Republicans the governorship and forcing Northam out and keeping Fairfax or Herring will look ridiculous.

    So, of course, all 3 will stay in office.

    Democrats are politicians too, you know.
  6. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    08 Feb '19 13:04
    @whodey said
    It was YOU and a whole host of other people demanding that Moore step aside, merely upon accusations. In fact, they have never been proved, as well as Trump and Kav.

    You are making yourself look foolish............again.
    I'd say that he's making YOU look foolish again.
    You should take that job back for yourself.
  7. Zugzwang
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    11 Feb '19 00:03
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/02/ralph-northam-virginia-slaves-indentured-servants.html

    "Va. Gov. Northam Refers to Slaves as “Indentured Servants” in TV Interview"

    "Northam’s choice of words were immediately seen as an example of how little he
    understands about American history and the history of African-Americans in his
    state and the country in general."
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    11 Feb '19 02:42
    @duchess64 said
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/02/ralph-northam-virginia-slaves-indentured-servants.html

    "Va. Gov. Northam Refers to Slaves as “Indentured Servants” in TV Interview"

    "Northam’s choice of words were immediately seen as an example of how little he
    understands about American history and the history of African-Americans in his
    state and the country in general."
    It seems to me that the Africans brought to Jamestown in 1619 were sold into slavery but some historians disagree:

    Though the history of blacks in Virginia begins in 1619, the transition of status from indentured servant to lifelong slave was a gradual process. Some historians believe that some of the first blacks who arrived in Virginia were already slaves, while others say they were taken into the colony as indentured servants. Historians generally believe slavery in the English colonies in North America did not begin as an institution until the 1660s.[7]

    Early cases show differences in treatment between Negro and European indentured servants. In 1640, the General Virginia Court decided the Emmanuel case. Emmanuel was a Negro indentured servant who participated in a plot to escape along with six white servants. Together, they stole corn, powder, and shot guns but were caught before making their escape. The members of the group were each convicted; they were sentenced to a variety of punishments. Christopher Miller, the leader of the group, was sentenced to wear shackles for one year. White servant John Williams was sentenced to serve the colony for an extra seven years. Peter Willcocke was branded, whipped, and was required to serve the colony for an additional seven years. Richard Cookson was required to serve for two additional years. Emmanuel, the Negro, was whipped and branded with an "R" on his cheek. All of the white servants had their terms of servitude increased by some extent, but the court did not extend Emmanuel's time of service. Many historians speculate Emmanuel was already a servant for life. While Emmanuel's status is not defined in the records, his being branded shows a difference in how white servants and black servants were treated. Though this case suggests that slavery existed, the distinction of lifetime servitude or slavery associated with Africans or people of African descent was not widespread until later.[8]

    That same year, 1640, "the first definite indication of outright enslavement appears in Virginia."[9] John Punch, a Negro indentured servant, escaped from his master, Hugh Gwyn, along with two white servants. Hugh Gwyn petitioned the courts, and the three servants were captured, convicted, and sentenced. The white servants had their indentured contracts extended by four years, but the courts gave John Punch a much harsher sentence. The courts decided that "the third being a negro named John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or else where." This is considered the earliest legal documentation of slavery in Virginia. It marked racial disparity in the treatment of black servants and their white counterparts, but also the beginning of Virginian courts reducing Negros from a condition of indentured servitude to slavery. Leon Higginbotham believes the case is evidence that the colony was developing a policy to force Negro laborers to serve terms of life servitude.[8]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_Virginia

    Now its a Wiki article so it can be taken with a grain of salt, though it does footnote to various articles and books by historians. So Northam might be wrong, but it seems the outcry over these comments is rather disproportionate to the gravity of his (possible) error.
  9. Zugzwang
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    11 Feb '19 03:162 edits
    @no1marauder said
    It seems to me that the Africans brought to Jamestown in 1619 were sold into slavery but some historians disagree:

    Though the history of blacks in Virginia begins in 1619, the transition of status from indentured servant to lifelong slave was a gradual process. Some historians believe that some of the first blacks who arrived in Virginia were already slaves, while othe ...[text shortened]... ms the outcry over these comments is rather disproportionate to the gravity of his (possible) error.
    Neither Ralph Northam nor his interviewer, Gayle King (a black woman), are historians.

    "And you know if you look at Virginia’s history we are now at the 400 year anniversary,
    just 90 miles from here in 1619. The first indentured servants from Africa landed
    on our shores in Old Point Comfort what we call now Fort Monroe …"
    --Ralph Northam

    It may be true that the first black Africans in Virginia arrived as 'indentured servants'.

    Given the obvious sensitivity of the circumstances (white politician under fire for
    his racist past telling a black journalist about history), if Ralph Northam had intended
    to make a technically accurate yet obscure point about early history in Virginia,
    then he should have introduced his statement much more carefully.
    As a politician, Ralph Northam should have known that.

    Here's an example:
    "Did you know that some historians believe that the first black Africans in Virginia
    arrived as indentured servants? Of course, that does not excuse their enslavement later..."
  10. Zugzwang
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    11 Feb '19 23:17
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/majority-of-black-virginians-dont-want-ralph-northam-to-resign-poll-says

    "Majority of black Virginians don't want Ralph Northam to resign, poll says"

    58%: Stay in office.
    37%: Resign.
  11. Zugzwang
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    12 Feb '19 00:29
    @no1marauder said
    It seems to me that the Africans brought to Jamestown in 1619 were sold into slavery but some historians disagree:

    Though the history of blacks in Virginia begins in 1619, the transition of status from indentured servant to lifelong slave was a gradual process. Some historians believe that some of the first blacks who arrived in Virginia were already slaves, while othe ...[text shortened]... ms the outcry over these comments is rather disproportionate to the gravity of his (possible) error.
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/gov-northams-indentured-servant-remark-challenged

    "Historians say Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam wrongly used the term “indentured
    servants” when referring to the first Africans to arrive in what is now Virginia.
    Scholars say they were enslaved."

    "Davidson College professor Michael Guasco confirms that some historians did
    use the term in the 1970s to 1990s to describe the small group of Africans who
    arrived because a few of them became free decades later. But he says historians
    have since confirmed through records that these first Africans in Virginia arrived
    as slaves and that most remained enslaved."
  12. Zugzwang
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    12 Feb '19 22:18
    @duchess64 said
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/majority-of-black-virginians-dont-want-ralph-northam-to-resign-poll-says

    "Majority of black Virginians don't want Ralph Northam to resign, poll says"

    58%: Stay in office.
    37%: Resign.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/12/black-virginians-ralph-northam-resign

    "Why most black Virginians don't want Ralph Northam to resign.
    Their reluctance to see Northam step down isn’t support for him as
    it is a rejection of the alternate scenarios that would follow his resignation."

    "Should the governor resign now, the uncertainty around the political careers of
    Fairfax and Herring suggests that the Republican Speaker of the House of Delegates
    would soon become governor. But in the 2017 election, only 12% of black voters
    cast a ballot for a Republican governor."

    "Compared to the sort of racially discriminatory laws and executive actions that
    could lie ahead, black Virginians would much prefer a Democratic governor who
    wore blackface decades ago and expresses contrition today."

    "Perhaps the greatest incentive for black Virginians’ wanting Northam to stick around
    is so that he can make good on his promises. High black voter turnout helped put
    him in office, and this blackface episode further indebts him to the black populace."
  13. Zugzwang
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    12 Feb '19 22:21
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/12/ralph-northam-blackface-virginia-structural-injustices

    "What's more offensive: a racist yearbook photo or structural racism?
    Shaming Ralph Northam and making him resign won’t change the structures
    that produce racial inequality. That requires more work."

    "Increasingly, parts of the American political left have developed a puritanical
    mentality of shaming individuals who are perceived to be racially insensitive."

    "The North Carolina pastor and progressive activist Rev William Barber argued as
    much in a recent op-ed in the Washington Post. “Scapegoating politicians who are
    caught in the act of interpersonal racism will not address the fundamental issue of
    systemic racism. We have to talk about policy."
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