@ghost-of-a-duke saidI'm gonna look into this one also. I'll get back to you on what I find. Right now I'm tried and need a break, so it will be at least a couple days or so as I like to do through searches to find the truth.
I think more 'anti the Jesus' presented in the Gospel of Thomas, as grounds for rejecting it.
Edit: No, definitely Jesus.
Edit: I just pulled out the ten books I need to search for the answers to this question; and, the question of how the Bible was copied until the printing press. I will most likely need to study further than this also.
You F'ers are making me feel like I'm back at University. lol.... Good thing we're on the internet and you can't hear me.... lol 😛
@bigdoggproblem saidhttps://www.josh.org/faithful-transmit-old-testament/[WORD TOO LONG]
To me, THIS post sound like making things up in lieu of evidence.
Even if it were done this way for 100 years in a row, there are still thousands more years of copying to account for.
If you tell me you know it was done this way for that entire time, I'll find that quite amusing.
I found this good article (link above, long link but it works) on how The Bible Scriptures have been well preserved and well translated. I don't know anything about this guy or the author Sherri Bell; other than they are Evangelicals; a sect I butt-heads with often. However, this is a great article on how I believe (actually know through God and my studies), and many others believe on the Bible Texts, both Old and New Testament being well preserved and well copied since the beginning of the Torah.
09 Jul 20
@bigdoggproblem saidI want to make clear here that in some ways I agree with you. The Translations of the Bible's that are bought and sold to the public today, do have some minor changes from the original Greek and Hebrew texts.
To me, THIS post sound like making things up in lieu of evidence.
Even if it were done this way for 100 years in a row, there are still thousands more years of copying to account for.
If you tell me you know it was done this way for that entire time, I'll find that quite amusing.
However, the original Greek and Hebrew texts are well copied and preserved all around the world. And, if any person today wishes a copy of those accurate texts, they can be found. The problem is, most of us don't speak or read Greek or Hebrew. Both fairly difficult languages to learn (in my opinion).
09 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 said"Original" texts?
However, the original Greek and Hebrew texts are well copied and preserved all around the world.
What century are the oldest existing texts from?
09 Jul 20
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@fmf saidOff hand I could not say for sure. We do have 'The Dead Sea Scrolls' etc.
"Original" texts?
What century are the oldest existing texts from?
And, when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls, they found that the scrolls closely matched current translations of the current Bible today.
Edit: Do you mean copies of the oldest texts? or texts? We have copies of most original texts.
I don't think they have the first of copy of any original text, if that's what you mean. Unless, the "Ark of the Covenant" is still around somewhere. Many say it is.
09 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidI take all that to mean you don't know.
Off hand I could not say for sure. We do have 'The Dead Sea Scrolls' etc.
And, when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls, they found that the scrolls closely matched current translations of the current Bible today.
Edit: Do you mean copies of the oldest texts? or texts? We have copies of most original texts.
I don't think they have the first of copy of any original ...[text shortened]... that's what you mean. Unless, the "Ark of the Covenant" is still around somewhere. Many say it is.
09 Jul 20
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidOkay. Here is a link to the scriptures in the Gospel Of Thomas where Jesus performed miracles.
I think more 'anti the Jesus' presented in the Gospel of Thomas, as grounds for rejecting it.
Edit: No, definitely Jesus.
: http://gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm
I've read all the scriptures and the ones you brought up are correct. However, when he cursed the one child and he died: and, where the towns people against him became blinded, This happened when Jesus was five years old. He did give the people back their sight sometime later when he was six years old; however, it says nothing about the boy coming back to life. All the other miracles are clearly good miracles from when He is six years old and beyond. Read them on the link and let's discuss them when you have time. 🙂
The Gospel of Thomas was written between 60 A.D. and 120 A.D.
Here is a pic of one of the first pages of they very first manuscripts written of the Gospel of Thomas, and 1st John.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas#/media/File:El_Evangelio_de_Tom%C3%A1s-Gospel_of_Thomas-_Codex_II_Manuscritos_de_Nag_Hammadi-The_Nag_Hammadi_manuscripts.png
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09 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidGreat, thanks for the links, interesting stuff. Have you though reconsidered your earlier statement:
Okay. Here is a link to the scriptures in the Gospel Of Thomas where Jesus performed miracles.
: http://gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm
I've read all the scriptures and the ones you brought up are correct. However, when he cursed the one child and he died: and, where the towns people against him became blinded, This happened when Jesus was five years old. He did ...[text shortened]... _de_Tom%C3%A1s-Gospel_of_Thomas-_Codex_II_Manuscritos_de_Nag_Hammadi-The_Nag_Hammadi_manuscripts.png
"Nothing sinful tho; just somewhat childish." (Even if the contentious events did occur during infancy).
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWell, read them and then let's discuss. Borderline for sure.
Great, thanks for the links, interesting stuff. Have you though reconsidered your earlier statement:
"Nothing sinful tho; just somewhat childish." (Even if the contentious events did occur during infancy).
However, when Elijah was taken up and Elisha took over, Elisha asked for just a small amount of Elijah's power and God gave him extra. Elisha was soon walking away and a large group of teenagers began pestering him, throwing rocks at him, calling him baldy (clearly he was bald), telling him to go on up to the mountain to pray as they were doing these things to him, clearly making fun of his faith. Elisha got mad and cursed them, all the sudden some wild bears came out of the woods and killed all the teenagers. Elisha felt somewhat bad that this had happened as he did NOT KNOW his power from God with his words. How accountable is a five year old? from six on He was fine; after being corrected by his parents Mary and Joseph. We must remember Jesus was also human, sht, piss, bad breath, etc. Also, a much different culture, especially with God stuff.
Border-line I say. Your thoughts after reading?
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@kingdavid403 saidIf we were talking about any ordinary 5 year old then I would say he wasn't accountable at all. Problem is, we all talking about the Jesus of whom John said, ". . . And in him is no sin."
Well, read them and then let's discuss. Borderline for sure.
However, when Elijah was taken up and Elisha took over, Elisha asked for just a small amount of Elijah's power and God gave him extra. Elisha was soon walking away and a large group of teenagers began pestering him, throwing rocks at him, calling him baldy (clearly he was bald), telling him to go on up to th ...[text shortened]... ifferent culture, especially with God stuff.
Border-line I say. Your thoughts after reading?
.
So the question remains, Is the Jesus Thomas describes compatible with the one we find in John? (And I'm not sure, in this context, the age of Jesus or his humanity matters, as John never said Jesus was sinless 'after' the age of 5).
Edit: Is Jesus sinless or 'borderline' sinless?
09 Jul 20
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidVery good point. So what we need to do first is, decide if His actions were sinful (even if out of character), for the strict Jewish culture of that day. It would have to be sinful according to the Old-Testament. I will look into it further and give you a decision within a few days. I would like if you would do the same also?; Iron sharpens Iron. It's clear to me what you think now.
If we were talking about any ordinary 5 year old then I would say he wasn't accountable at all. Problem is, we all talking about the Jesus of whom John said, ". . . And in him is no sin."
So the question remains, Is the Jesus Thomas describes compatible with the one we find in John? (And I'm not sure, in this context, the age of Jesus or his humanity matters, as J ...[text shortened]... ver said Jesus was sinless 'after' the age of 5).
Edit: Is Jesus sinless or 'borderline' sinless?
I can tell you that this is one of the earliest Gospels written. Interesting. 🙂
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09 Jul 20
@kingdavid403 saidWill do.
Very good point. So what we need to do first is, decide if His actions were sinful (even if out of character), for the strict Jewish culture of that day. It would have to be sinful according to the Old-Testament. I will look into it further and give you a decision within a few days. I would like if you would do the same also?; Iron sharpens Iron.
I can tell you that this is one of the earliest Gospels written. Interesting. 🙂
09 Jul 20
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@suzianne saidThanks for the excellent link Suzanne. 🙂
Here is just one opinion on whether the extant "Gospel of Thomas" should be included in the Bible.
http://bibleq.net/answer/2996/#:~:text=No.%20The%20Gospel%20of%20Thomas%20is%20not%20an,and%20characters%2C%20etc.%2C%20found%20in%20the%20Biblical%20texts%2C
I apologize for the long link.
The opinions that vary among supposed great scholars is somewhat hilarious. I don't think there are two in the world that completely agree. Example: The two websites I studied said the Gospel of Thomas was written between 60 ad and 120 ad. Yours says: mid second century. This is one reason why we have to study scriptures so hard. Truthfully, this Gospel sounds more like it was written in the second century than the first. The style of writing.