“I believe every word in the bible”

@kingdavid403 said
For I, Godly faith is well explained in Hebrews chapter 11.
[Heb 11:1-7 NKJV]

Chapter 11,
"1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a [good] testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which ar ...[text shortened]... ch is according to faith."..... You can read the rest of Hebrews chapter 11 out of your own Bibles.

Yeah I think you’re missing my point here. I know what “faith” is old chap.

What I’d like to see is the scriptures upon which explain that the bible is complete, infallible etc and upon which the faith hangs...

@divegeester said
Yeah I think you’re missing my point here. I know what “faith” is old chap.

What I’d like to see is the scriptures upon which explain that the bible is complete, infallible etc and upon which the faith hangs...

What I’d like to see is the scriptures upon which explain that the bible is complete, infallible etc and upon which the faith hangs..
I just did a complete computer match search of the protestant Christian Bible; and, there is NO scripture or scriptures that say the Bible is complete, or infallible. Nor do I recollect any myself. There has always been great Christian scholars around the world that have fought against Bible scriptures being changed. That includes translations into new languages.
There have been many great Christians throughout time that never had a Bible or even read one. The Bible is NOT needed for salvation or to have a relationship with God! Faith is believing in (admitting really) that God is real and Good; and then, seeking Him out diligently to have a relationship with Him because He loves you. And, still believing even though we cannot physically prove it.
Now, God has given us His Word through Great Prophets and JESUS IN THE FLESH; to help us know Him closer. I believe this for Muslims, Buddhists, etc. also. The written copies of His word by man are fallible; however, this could only happen because man did it to themselves and changed the scriptures. And, it is slowly happening now in these days by supposed Christians,
If you read and study Hebrews chapter 11, all of it; you will know what the true Christian faith is all about. Here's a few good scriptures from that chapter.

[Heb 11:1, 3, 6 NKJV] 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. ... 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. ... 6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [Him], for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and [that] He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

@dj2becker said
You ‘know’ this how exactly? Only really possible to prove a negative if you are omniscient.

I know because it was copied by hand by human beings and human beings are going to make errors copying a book that large.

Not to mention that most human beings are too lazy to read both editions word-for-word to catch all the copying errors.

@KingDavid403

I imagine the Baal Shem Tov will visit you soon with gifts of fresh-baked bread and a variety of pickles.

@divegeester said
Yeah I think you’re missing my point here. I know what “faith” is old chap.

What I’d like to see is the scriptures upon which explain that the bible is complete, infallible etc and upon which the faith hangs...

The scriptures of any belief system can be either a gateway or an obstructing diversion.

From a non-religious perspective, I wonder if you are aware of Raymond Moody's books about NDEs. He has another one not about NDEs, but about the strange experiences of the survivors in the room at the time someone passes.

It's fair to be Eliza Doolittle (or Wittgenstein) about "words words words". If there is some Creative Intelligence who laid out this vast seamonkey tank and Who intervened or echoed back during the incidents described in scripture, it's a fair point to wonder whether that One has decided to withdraw into some kind of Invisible Solar minimum, or whether we each can still have a hint or two in our lives that things really are connected funny behind the scenes.

@bigdoggproblem said
I know because it was copied by hand by human beings and human beings are going to make errors copying a book that large.

Not to mention that most human beings are too lazy to read both editions word-for-word to catch all the copying errors.

Do you think a few copying errors can completely change the narrative?

@caesar-salad said
The scriptures of any belief system can be either a gateway or an obstructing diversion.

Of course.

@caesar-salad said
From a non-religious perspective, I wonder if you are aware of Raymond Moody's books about NDEs. He has another one not about NDEs, but about the strange experiences of the survivors in the room at the time someone passes.

I’m not aware of this author or his books.

@caesar-salad said
It's fair to be Eliza Doolittle (or Wittgenstein) about "words words words". If there is some Creative Intelligence who laid out this vast seamonkey tank and Who intervened or echoed back during the incidents described in scripture, it's a fair point to wonder whether that One has decided to withdraw into some kind of Invisible Solar minimum, or whether we each can still have a hint or two in our lives that things really are connected funny behind the scenes.

What are you on about?

@dj2becker said
Do you think a few copying errors can completely change the narrative?

Are you really this intellectually constrained or are you just playing a game of being obtuse to avoid BDP’s very well made point?

@dj2becker said
Do you think a few copying errors can completely change the narrative?

There were no copying errors. They (Great Christian scholars of those days who had original copy's of all manuscripts) they would hire dozens of scribes at a time to copy those writings word for word. All the copy's by the scribes were gone over very carefully to make sure that they were word for word; otherwise they would not get paid or even worse etc.

@divegeester said
Ok I shall look forward to reading it, thank you in advance.
Please don’t be offended if I challenge you about it.

Give me a few hours or so and I will be ready to post it. I'm putting it together now on a word document. Just to let you know I'm working on it now. 🙂

@kingdavid403 said
Give me a few hours or so and I will be ready to post it. I'm putting it together now on a word document. Just to let you know I'm working on it now. 🙂

OK, I’m right here...waiting ...

@divegeester said
OK, I’m right here...waiting ...

When I changed my mind it was 25 years ago. Until then I did not believe the whole Bible to be completely accurate. I was most certain that through all the translations over thousands of years, and everything that has happened since then, there is NO way the Bible could be completely accurate.
Then, I found what I thought to be a complete contradiction in the Bible with scriptures to show it. The problem was, this contradiction shook my faith to it’s core, along with my salvation.
The contradiction was with the thief on the Cross dying with Jesus.
In Luke we have this version from witness accounts:
[Luke 23:39-43 NKJV] 39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." 40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 "And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." 42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." 43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

In Mathew account and he was there:
[Mat 27:41-44 NKJV] [Mat 27:38-39 NKJV] 38 Then two robbers were crucified with Him, one on the right and another on the left. 39 And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads41 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said, 42 "He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him. 43 "He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44 Even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing.

Mark from witness accounts:
[Mark 15:29-32 NKJV] 29 And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads and saying, "Aha! [You] who destroy the temple and build [it] in three days, 30 "save Yourself, and come down from the cross!" 31 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking among themselves with the scribes, said, "He saved others; Himself He cannot save. 32 "Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe." Even those who were crucified with Him reviled Him.



John’s total account of the event and he was there:
[John 19:18 NKJV] 18 where they crucified Him, and two others with Him, one on either side, and Jesus in the center.
I’m certain the discrepancies or contradictions are evident to you.
Up until this time as a Christian, I rested my salvation on what Jesus said and did for the thief on the cross that repented. These discrepancies or contradictions shook my faith to its core.
I will do this in a two-part post with part two being posted in a few hours. I will next tell you what changed my mind. 🙂
EDIT: I'm gonna throw in a little drama here; however, as God is my witness, it is true. I was dying of a terminal illness at that time and given 6 months to a year to live.

@bigdoggproblem said
I know because it was copied by hand by human beings and human beings are going to make errors copying a book that large.

Not to mention that most human beings are too lazy to read both editions word-for-word to catch all the copying errors.

In many cases yes, in this case no. The scribes were carefully watched and all scriptures were copied word for word. The penalty could be death if otherwise.
It took Bible scholars from all around the word to agree upon the translation into English ( King James). 400+ Bible scholars from around the world had to agree upon the newer versions in circulation today before they could publish. Etc. There are so many copies around of the original Greek and Hebrew texts today that the true original scriptures never have, or never will be changed. It would take a Noah's flood to wipe them (God's Holy Word scriptures) out from us. What Christians and others need to watch for, is false teachers who do change and misinterpret scriptures for their will or benefit.