@metal-brain saidThere is no espionage charge. One of the charges is based on a statute which was contained in the 1917 law commonly referred to as the "Espionage Act" but the specific charge is Willful Retention of National Defense Information (18 U.S.C. § 793(e)) not espionage.
The espionage charge is obviously a trumped up charge.
"Generally, an espionage conviction requires U.S. prosecutors to prove the following elements:
Information transmitted is classified government information or relates to national defense ; and
The accused acted with the intent or reason to believe the information will harm the United States or help a foreign nation (not necessarily an "enemy" of the United States); and
There was a willful communication, transfer, or receipt of the information; or
There was an overt act in furtherance of a conspiracy to commit espionage."
https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/espionage.html
You obviously are refusing to read the indictment like Mott.
The charges are:
31 counts of Willful Retention of National Defense Information (18 U.S.C. § 793(e))
1 count each of:
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice (18 U.S.C. § 1512(k)
Withholding a Document or Record (18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(b)(2)(A), 2)
Corruptly Concealing a Document or Record (18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(c)(l), 2)
Concealing a Document in a Federal Investigation (18 u.s.c. §§ 1519, 2)
Scheme to Conceal (18 U.S.C. §§ lO0l(a)(l), 2)
False Statements and Representations (18 U.S.C. §§ 1001(a)(2), 2)
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@no1marauder saidThis is all helping Trump. It was intended to. The establishment wants another Trump vs. Biden general election and that is what they will get unless you wise up to this rigged game.
There is no espionage charge. One of the charges is based on a statute which was contained in the 1917 law commonly referred to as the "Espionage Act" but the specific charge is Willful Retention of National Defense Information (18 U.S.C. § 793(e)) not espionage.
"Generally, an espionage conviction requires U.S. prosecutors to prove the following elements:
Informati ...[text shortened]... inal/criminal-charges/espionage.html
You obviously are refusing to read the indictment like Mott.
@metal-brain saidThe evidence outlined in the indictment provide overwhelming proof of multiple violations of federal laws which are serious felonies. It is more than sufficient to justify the charges in the indictment as the Grand Jury found.
This is all helping Trump. It was intended to. The establishment wants another Trump vs. Biden general election and that is what they will get unless you wise up to this rigged game.
Any political ramifications should be irrelevant to any charging decisions.
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@Metal-Brain
Its NOT espionage, they are not SO FAR not talking about actual treason.
If they can figure out say where he USED those docs, like let people read them, it might be a different story,
The dif between a few years in prison V life or execution like the Rosenbergs.
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@Metal-Brain
Hey you commie fukhead, it is Trump's OWN WORDS condemning him.
THEY ARE MINE and such, all over that indictment.
Oh, I forgot, he never said those things it was all photoshopped with AI since he SAID he was the most innocent person on Earth.
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@metal-brain saidWe didn't imagine that someone of your mental frailty would really appreciate the newsworthiness of this. Blowing this off as "old news" isn't a good look for you... or him.
This is all helping Trump. It was intended to. The establishment wants another Trump vs. Biden general election and that is what they will get unless you wise up to this rigged game.
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@metal-brain saidZerohedge again? Seriously?
@sonhouse
The U.S. Department of Justice rarely brings cases against officials who lie, regardless of whether they’re under oath.
Former President Donald Trump became one of the rare exceptions this week when he was charged with making false statements and other crimes.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/top-biden-administration-official-admits-lying-congress
E ...[text shortened]... flicting stocks,” Granholm wrote in the missive, which was obtained and reviewed by The Epoch Times.
The Epoch Times? WTH?
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@suzianne saidits already beginning to fall apart…
Zerohedge again? Seriously?
The Epoch Times? WTH?
“The indictment accuses President Trump of withholding documents containing “classified markings,” a very specifically deployed obtuse wording intended to create the implication of something nefarious where nothing nefarious exists. It is entirely possible for a person, any person, especially a person who follows the news, to possess documents containing “classified markings.”
There is a big difference between a classified document and a document containing classified markings. As an example, anyone who has looked at the Carter Page FISA application, made public in July 2018, has reviewed a document containing “classified markings.” When a document is declassified, they do not remove the markings.
You might think this is a one-off use of the “documents with classification markings” lingo, but it’s not. This language is the underpinning of the entire DOJ/FBI framework that predicated the raid on Mar-a-Lago. Specifically, neither NARA nor the DOJ-NSD requested President Trump or his team to return Classified Documents. The DOJ demanded the return of any documents that contained “classified markings.””
@mott-the-hoople saidYou must be relying on someone like yourself who hasn't read the indictment.
its already beginning to fall apart…
“The indictment accuses President Trump of withholding documents containing “classified markings,” a very specifically deployed obtuse wording intended to create the implication of something nefarious where nothing nefarious exists. It is entirely possible for a person, any person, especially a person who follows the news, to p ...[text shortened]... fied Documents. The DOJ demanded the return of any documents that contained “classified markings.””
The indictment does not charge Trump with retaining documents with "classified markings" but:
"having unauthorized possession of, access to, and control over documents relating to the national defense, did willfully retain the documents and fail to deliver them to the officer and employee of the United States entitled to receive them; that is-TRUMP, without authorization, retained-at The Mar-a-Lago Club documents relating to the national defense".
This tracks the language of the crime he is charged with 18 USC 793(e):
"(e)Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; "
"Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."
There is no need for the documents to be "classified" though 21 of the 31 documents Trump is charged with illegally having possession of were marked "Top Secret" and 9 were marked "Secret". The vast majority contained intelligence briefings regarding foreign countries or their military activities and/or capabilities. One (Document 11) is alleged to have been "Undated document concerning military contingency planning of the United States"; another (Document 19) was an "Undated document concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States."
An ex-President has no legal authority to have any such documents in his possession.
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In fact many more documents with classification markings were obtained pursuant to the Grand Jury subpoena and later search warrant than the 31 Trump is charged with illegally possessing:
"⦁ On June 3, in response to a grand jury subpoena demanding the production of all documents with classification markings, TRUMP's attorney provided to the FBI 38 more documents with classification markings.
⦁ On August 8, pursuant to a court-authorized search warrant, the FBI recovered from TRUMP's office and a storage room at The Mar-a-Lago Club 102 more documents with classification markings."
In short, documents having classification markings was neither sufficient nor necessary for them to support the charge of unlawfully possessing information relating to the national defense as far as the Grand Jury was concerned.
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@no1marauder saidYou are still falling for it. Charges and convictions are 2 very different things. This is just a way for the news media to give him precious media attention to help him win the nomination while pretending to be against him. Now the people who once voted for Trump will say "see, they are against him" so we should be for him.
The evidence outlined in the indictment provide overwhelming proof of multiple violations of federal laws which are serious felonies. It is more than sufficient to justify the charges in the indictment as the Grand Jury found.
Any political ramifications should be irrelevant to any charging decisions.
Trump is a fake anti establishment figure. The establishment likes him, but need the frustrated people that are fed up with the corruption to vote for the fake so they don't vote for a real anti establishment candidate.
You are also bringing more attention to the fake man. You are unwittingly helping him win the nomination. You are helping the jerk. Proud of yourself?
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@sonhouse saidTrump is not going to prison. He has secret service protection for life. What is the secret service going to do, delegate that protection to the prison? You are being used to help Trump win the nomination. Your wishful thinking that Trump will end up behind bars is a useful tool for him to use against you.
@Metal-Brain
Its NOT espionage, they are not SO FAR not talking about actual treason.
If they can figure out say where he USED those docs, like let people read them, it might be a different story,
The dif between a few years in prison V life or execution like the Rosenbergs.
You are helping the jerk. If you don't want to help him then ignore him. No attention is the most effective punishment for that jerk right now. You are feeding the narcissist. Remember Star Wars and how evil loves to encourage hate against them. In the end it rots your soul because it is consumed with hate.
Trump thanks you for your hate for him. He hopes your hate for him grows ever more. It serves him well.
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@no1marauder said“In fact many more documents with classification markings”
In fact many more documents with classification markings were obtained pursuant to the Grand Jury subpoena and later search warrant than the 31 Trump is charged with illegally possessing:
"⦁ On June 3, in response to a grand jury subpoena demanding the production of all documents with classification markings, TRUMP's attorney provided to the FBI 38 more documents with ...[text shortened]... lly possessing information relating to the national defense as far as the Grand Jury was concerned.
you dont get it or you dont want to get it.
YOU have possessed documents with “classification markings”.
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@mott-the-hoople saidIs it a good idea to enforce laws related to the handling of classified information?
“In fact many more documents with classification markings”
you dont get it or you dont want to get it.
YOU have possessed documents with “classification markings”.