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04 Dec 19
@moonbus saidThere that's all you had to do, see it's not difficult.
@divegeester
Here is the order of priority:
1. The Holy Spirit is the primary channel through which God's will is made known to man. This takes precedence over all others, including Scripture.
2. The body of Christ in the world, meaning the Church, meaning the mainstream Church (as defined by Apostolic Succession, churches founded by the Apostles, not w ...[text shortened]... not some flakey, heretical, 'Kentucky Colonel', self-ordained, tv-evangelist Inc., wanna-be-bishop.
In reply...
You are appealing to an authority, Catholicism is it? Defending that authority when you no longer believe it to be true. Why is that?
I don't recognise your version of Christian authority by the way.
05 Dec 19
2 edits
@divegeester saidThis is not my version of it, neither am I defending it. I'm accurately reporting what it is and has been for 2,0000 years. Christianity isn't a democracy; you can't just vote for the bits you like.
There that's all you had to do, see it's not difficult.
In reply...
You are appealing to an authority, Catholicism is it? Defending that authority when you no longer believe it to be true. Why is that?
I don't recognise your version of Christian authority by the way.
EDIT: As I knew in advance, you wouldn't believe me if I told you.
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05 Dec 19
@moonbus saidAgain...
This is not my version of it. I'm accurately reporting what it is and has been for 2,0000 years. Christianity isn't a democracy; you can't just vote for the bits you like.
You are appealing to an authority, Catholicism is it?
You are defending that authority when you no longer believe it to be true. Why is that?
05 Dec 19
@divegeester saidI am not defending it, I am accurately reporting what it is.
Again...
You are appealing to an authority, Catholicism is it?
You are defending that authority when you no longer believe it to be true. Why is that?
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05 Dec 19
@moonbus saidThird time of asking...
I am not defending it, I am accurately reporting what it is.
You are appealing to an authority, Catholicism is it?
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05 Dec 19
@moonbus saidYou seem to be channeling Galveston75 here.
@divegeester
This is not my personal opinion. This has been established Christian doctrine since Jesus sent his Apostles to spread the word, since before the NT was written.
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05 Dec 19
2 edits
@moonbus saidYou are defending, or let’s say promoting, something you don’t even believe in. Are you a closet Christian, or still carrying a lot of baggage?
I am not defending it, I am accurately reporting what it is.
05 Dec 19
@divegeester saidFor the third time, the answer is: all the churches which can trace their lineage back to one of the Apostles. This includes not only Catholicism, but Greek and Russian Orthodoxy, as well as the Armenian and Coptic churches, and any other church which can trace its lineage back to someone who was himself authorised by Jesus.
You seem to be defending something you don’t even believe in. Are you a closet Christian, or still carrying a lot of baggage?
I am not now nor have I ever been a Christian, closet or otherwise.
I can accurately report what Judaism is, or Buddhism or Islam or animism, without defending them or believing anything they claim. Same with Christianity.
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05 Dec 19
2 edits
@moonbus saidWell it’s not the “third time”, but never mind.
For the third time, the answer is: all the churches which can trace their lineage back to one of the Apostles. This includes not only Catholicism, but Greek and Russian Orthodoxy, as well as the Armenian and Coptic churches, and any other church which can trace its lineage back to someone who was himself authorised by Jesus.
I am not now nor have I ever been a Christian, c ...[text shortened]... Islam or animism, without defending them or believing anything they claim. Same with Christianity.
So your claim that scripture is “tertiary” is based on some bona fide documents which ALL the churches have, I.e. those who can prove their lineage back to an actual original apostle... I see.
So how do ALL these mainstream “not flakey, heretical, 'Kentucky Colonel', self-ordained, tv-evangelist Inc., wanna-be” Churches do that then?
And more importantly why should you, a non Christian believe them?
And why should I, a Christian, believe you, a non Christian?
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05 Dec 19
2 edits
@moonbus saidBut you are not reporting on what Christianity is...you are posting your unsubstantiated opinion based on some alleged evidence that a bunch of corporate religions claim (do they?) to have.
I can accurately report what Judaism is, or Buddhism or Islam or animism, without defending them or believing anything they claim. Same with Christianity.
You are not even “reporting”. You’re not a journalist are you perhaps?
05 Dec 19
1 edit
@divegeester saidThe lineage going back to an Apostle, and ultimately to Jesus, is maintained and carried out by a ceremony, "The Laying On Of Hands," which confers authority (e.g., ordination) and invokes the Holy Spirit (the primary channel, remember).
So your claim that scripture is “tertiary” is based on some bona fide documents which ALL the churches have, I.e. those who can prove their lineage back to an actual original apostle... I see.
So how do ALL these mainstream “not flakey, heretical, 'Kentucky Colonel', self-ordained, tv-evangelist Inc., wanna-be” Churc you, a non Christian believe them?
And why should I, a Christian, believe you, a non Christian?
This act of laying on of hands, invoking the Holy Spirit, is mentioned in the NT, for example: Acts 6:5–6, Acts 8:14–19, Acts 13:3, 1 Timothy 4:14. Also possibly Acts 14:23.
I'm not asking you to believe me; ask those who have received the authority and the blessing from him whom you worship.
It rather surprises me that you seem to have no knowledge of this, as it pertains to the elementary inner workings and detail of how the salvational message is propagated in Christianity.
Whether I personally believe any of this has no bearing on the discussion, just as I am quite happy to discuss evolution with people don't believe it.
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05 Dec 19
@moonbus saidRight, so a sort of Chinese whispers version of "touched you - you're it" but not actually anything corroborative whatsoever?
The lineage going back to an Apostle, and ultimately to Jesus, is maintained and carried out by a ceremony, "The Laying On Of Hands," which confers authority (e.g., ordination) and invokes the Holy Spirit (the primary channel, remember).