The Wisdom of Witness Lee

'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'


Nope, there's no coming back from that...

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

Nope, there's no coming back from that...

So in offering an alternative explanation of the parable of the leaven and the meal in Matthew 13:33 you intend to stick to the cowardly approach of avoiding it?

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

Nope, there's no coming back from that...

So in offering an alternative explanation of the parable of the leaven and the meal in Matthew 13:33 you intend to stick to the cowardly approach of avoiding it?

Why do you keep going on about leaven bread and why the obsession with devouring the divine?

@sonship said

If someone wants to say that I do not ALWAYS turn a meek and mild other cheek, guilty as charged.

Yes, I do want to say that.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Yes, I do want to say that.

Then I am not alone in saying that.

@sonship
I don’t want to interrupt GoaD’s discussion with you, sonship, but I do have a question for you in this context (i.e. the teachings of WL):

You mentioned several times in this thread (I’m sure you don’t need the exact reference) that the LSM wants to go back to the original early church practices in what you do, e.g. meeting on the basis of locality.

Another practice of the early church in Jerusalem recorded in Acts was that they sold their houses and possessions and “laid them at the apostle’s feet” for distribution to the poor and widows.

Do you practice that particular “early church practice”, and if not, why not?

@caljust said
@sonship
I don’t want to interrupt GoaD’s discussion with you, sonship, but I do have a question for you in this context (i.e. the teachings of WL):

Happy to defer to your question sir. (It's a good one).

@CalJust

We're still working on "greet one another with a holy kiss."

Seriously now, I have experienced some communal aspects of sharing property. Lodging, automobile, financial assistance, furniture and other practical supplies I have seen shared quite generously.

These instances were not done as a legality. Neither then nor now was the sharing of all things in common a legality. We see in Jerusalem that spontaneously there was a period in which the overflowing of generosity occured not as a legality but through the depth of consecration and love.

Is the implication of your question something like this?

If we find some practice recorded in the New Testament that is not legally applied today by churches, to that degree they have not gone back to early original desire of God.

Let's test it a bit.

1.) In Corinth some people practiced being baptized on behalf of dead loved ones.

Do you have a legal practice that members of a local church must therefore undergo baptism for dead relatives ?

2.) James said the elders of the church should take physical oil and anoint the sick before in praying for them.

Do you have a requirement that elders should bring a container of oil to anoint a sick Christian while praying?

3.) The believers praying in the home of Mary talked about Peter's angel when they thought his angel was knocking at the door. (It was Peter)

Do you have a strong practice of teaching all the members have their personal angel like the those believers in Mary's house in Jerusalem ?

4.) Paul wrote of the widows washing the feet of the saints to Timothy.

Do you have a requirement that widows wash the feet of the believers in your church?

We can seek out instances recorded in the New Testament and interrogate present day believers to see if "orthodoxy" dictates that they behave exactly the same way.

I think the issue deserves more than just a short post to examine. And you only expect me to respond with a single post which has already become lengthy.

Let me close this post prematurely with this.

I can find instances in the New Testament where saints communally had all things in common. And I can find instances where obviously private property was practiced.

I can find instances where the apostles ordained elders according to cities and according to churches establishing a church per a city. But I cannot find an exception to this. When a city is mentioned the church is always mentioned in the singular tense.

While I notice some leeway with some aspects of the early Christians' way I don't see leeway in the other. I would think this reflects some degrees of importance.

@sonship said
@CalJust

We're still working on "greet one another with a holy kiss."

Seriously now, I have experienced some communal aspects of sharing property. Lodging, automobile, financial assistance, furniture and other practical supplies I have seen shared quite generously.

These instances were not done as a legality. Neither then nor now was the sharing of all things in c ...[text shortened]... tians' way I don't see leeway in the other. I would think this reflects some degrees of importance.

Can pretty much anything that a Christian was instructed to actually do, by the Bible in a walk-the-Christian-walk way, be dismissed or sidestepped selectively by characterizing it as "legality"?

@sonship said
@CalJust

We're still working on "greet one another with a holy kiss."

Seriously now, I have experienced some communal aspects of sharing property. Lodging, automobile, financial assistance, furniture and other practical supplies I have seen shared quite generously.

These instances were not done as a legality. Neither then nor now was the sharing of all things in c ...[text shortened]... tians' way I don't see leeway in the other. I would think this reflects some degrees of importance.

Not taking everything in the bible as being literal is quite liberating isn’t it!

@divegeester

Not taking everything in the bible as being literal is quite liberating isn’t it!

Yes.

Jesus said to be careful how you listen. So I be careful how I listen to the words of Jesus and the Bible (Luke 8:18). You don't ?

When parables are expressed, we take them as parables.
When allegory is expressed, we take it as allegory.
If something is recorded as having happened, we first regard it as a record of something that happened.
If it is expressed as teaching, we take it as teaching.
If expressed as command, we take it as command.

It is liberating to have the common sense of an adult in reading the Bible. Quite true.

Now, the Bible said Judas went and hanged himself.
So go get some rope and taking it literally as what you should do. That'll teach me.

@sonship said
@divegeester

Not taking everything in the bible as being literal is quite liberating isn’t it!

Now, the Bible said Judas went and hanged himself.
So go get some rope and taking it literally as what you should do. That'll teach me.

Gosh!

I’ve seen you write some nasty stuff, but this is right up there.

@FMF

Can pretty much anything that a Christian was instructed to actually do, by the Bible in a walk-the-Christian-walk way, be dismissed or sidestepped selectively by characterizing it as "legality"?

In your system I will never be examined by Christ as to how I walked. In my belief I will.

The prospect of being examined by my Lord is far more significant then the paper tiger of some atheist's grumbling.

Other than a little cynical sneer on your way to dissolving into dust you have no authority to call Christians or anyone into final accounting.

I don't think you ever answered the question.
Do you think anywhere in the world someone is doing something that they should not be doing ?

If you do as you imply with you complaint here, then you admit there is a goodness or an oughtness outside of us and over us.

Where does that standard of what ought be done outside and above us come from ?

@sonship said

So go get some rope and taking it literally as what you should do. That'll teach me.

But I thought Jesus had made suicide obsolete?!

Perhaps that is why you are so flippant about it?...

@sonship said
In your system I will never be examined by Christ as to how I walked. In my belief I will.

Jesus has been stone dead for 2,000 years.