Prayer & being between a rock and a hard place

@pb1022 said
We’re not talking about whether we would trade places with a close loved one who is about to die. We’re talking about whether our emotions, feelings, anxiety, fear, etc. are the same as the loved one who is about to die.

I was an atheist in my own personal foxhole. I learnt something about my loss of faith that night.

@avalanchethecat said
Again, if you had children or a loving partner of long-standing, you wouldn't make these silly statements.

Ok, so we just disagree.

If I’m watching a close loved one die, and I have, I don’t make the experience about myself. And I certainly don’t post about it on a website.

But to each his own.

@fmf said
Have you ever loved someone so much you would choose to die if it would save them? Being in a predicament like that cannot be described as a foxhole?

I’m certainly not revealing personal information about myself or my family on here given how many atheists are on here.

@fmf said
I was an atheist in my own personal foxhole. I learnt something about my loss of faith that night.

Ok. I hope your wife made it through and everything worked out for you and her.

@pb1022 said
If I’m watching a close loved one die, and I have, I don’t make the experience about myself. And I certainly don’t post about it on a website.

This is the forum for me to discuss faith and prayer. I haven't been discussing my wife's faith. There are atheists in foxholes. I have no idea how many, but the conventional wisdom that there are none is not true.

@pb1022 said
I don’t think I am.

Does that make it a fact?

@fmf said
This is the forum for me to discuss faith and prayer. I haven't been discussing my wife's faith. There are atheists in foxholes. I have no idea how many, but the conventional wisdom that there are none is not true.

I think you can only say that if *you* were about to die and confront an unknown afterlife and did not pray but remained an atheist.

@divegeester said
Does that make it a fact?

I don’t know what that quote refers to

@pb1022 said
I’m certainly not revealing personal information about myself or my family on here given how many atheists are on here.

I revealed personal information in the OP and your posts have been littered with all manner of mocking words ~ directed at me ~ like obscene, selfish, dishonest, melodramatic, egotistical, ridiculous, navel gazer, blatantly dishonest, false, blatantly ridiculous, obscene comparison... blah blah blah.

@pb1022 said
I think you can only say that if *you* were about to die and confront an unknown afterlife and did not pray but remained an atheist.

Like I said, I was an atheist in my own personal foxhole on that traumatic night. And I learnt something about my loss of faith while I was in it.

@fmf said
I revealed personal information in the OP and your posts have been littered with all manner of mocking words ~ directed at me ~ like obscene, selfish, dishonest, melodramatic, egotistical, ridiculous, navel gazer, blatantly dishonest, false, blatantly ridiculous, obscene comparison... blah blah blah.

And this quote of yours, as you related the experience of watching a close relative potentially die, is why I used those words:

“What a momentous thing ~ what a game-changer ~ it would have been, in light of all the views I have espoused and propagated sincerely here on this forum over the last decade or so, if I had prayed that night.”

@pb1022 said
And this quote of yours, as you related the experience of watching a close relative potentially die, is why I used those words:

“What a momentous thing ~ what a game-changer ~ it would have been, in light of all the views I have espoused and propagated sincerely here on this forum over the last decade or so, if I had prayed that night.”

Yes, that's me talking to my debate and discussion counterparts on a Spirituality Forum 18 months after the event. It's not what I was thinking in that hospital room.

My relationship with each member of this community [with whom I debate and discuss beliefs] revolves around the beliefs each has espoused to me and the beliefs I have espoused to each of them.

I have been a robust advocate of my perspectives, so it would have been interesting if my theism had returned, here in public, in conversation with people that had known me as an atheist.

@pb1022 said
Ok, so we just disagree.

If I’m watching a close loved one die, and I have, I don’t make the experience about myself. And I certainly don’t post about it on a website.

But to each his own.

Disagree?! Sincerely, I hope you speak from inexperience rather than a lack of capacity, because that would be tragic.

@pb1022 said
I don’t know what that quote refers to

It’s not a “quote” and it was in reply to you claiming you’re right about something…as you well know.

You seem a little tetchy today.

@divegeester said
It’s not a “quote” and it was in reply to you claiming you’re right about something…as you well know.

You seem a little tetchy today.

Well I still don’t know what it refers to.

Nor do I know what “tetchy” means. Do you mean touchy?