Prayer & being between a rock and a hard place

@pb1022 said
Ok, well people can interpret your OP however they want. I gave my interpretation and the reasons for it.

Perhaps there is no one in your life you love so much that you would lay your life down to save them if you could. Maybe you just haven't had the life experience necessary to empathize.

@fmf said
You didn't mention "the afterlife" until halfway down page three. avalanchethecat was responding to what you posted on the first two pages.

You don’t think thoughts about the afterlife - what it’s like and whether it even exists - are a given for *anybody* about to die?

@fmf said
Perhaps there is no one in your life you love so much that you would lay your life down to save them if you could. Maybe you just haven't had the life experience necessary to empathize.

That has nothing to do with your OP or my response to it.

You compared yourself watching a close relative die to an atheist in a foxhole.

I think it’s an obvious false comparison.

@pb1022 said
So you think someone who is about to die has the same thoughts, feelings, anxiety, emotions and fear as someone who is not about to confront the afterlife?

I realize you’ll never admit you’re wrong.

But I also realize we both know you are.

You misunderstood my point and are now desperately - and dishonestly - trying to pretend you didn’t.

Gosh, everyone lies here except you! Don't you find that strange? [/s]

Your meaning was quite clear when you belittled FMF's experience. I hope that in the future you are able to find a loving life-partner and produce children.

@pb1022 said
You compared yourself to an atheist in a foxhole - someone who is about to die or thinks he is.You made that obscene comparison. I didn’t.

I think sitting alone and sleepless in the dark, in a hospital room ~ drips hooked up, machines beeping, realizing that my wife was on the brink of death ~ was an example of a foxhole: a dire predicament in which an atheist might turn to God.

@pb1022 said
You don’t think thoughts about the afterlife - what it’s like and whether it even exists - are a given for *anybody* about to die?

You don't think you'd consider these same things when faced with the imminent death of somebody who means more to you than your own life?

@avalanchethecat said
Gosh, everyone lies here except you! Don't you find that strange? [/s]

Your meaning was quite clear when you belittled FMF's experience. I hope that in the future you are able to find a loving life-partner and produce children.

Yep, there it is.

You lost another argument and are getting personal and trolling out of humiliation and frustration.

As predictable as the sunrise with you.

@avalanchethecat said
You don't think you'd consider these same things when faced with the imminent death of somebody who means more to you than your own life?

Obviously, but not to the intensity of the person dying. And the anxiety and fear level would be vastly higher for the person about to die.

@pb1022 said
Obviously, but not to the intensity of the person dying. And the anxiety and fear level would be vastly higher for the person about to die.

Perhaps there is no one you would lay your life down for. I have two sons. I would lay down my life for either of them in a heartbeat. One has to undergo certain experiences to comprehend what the intensity of a certain kind of love is like.

@pb1022 said
Yep, there it is.

You lost another argument and are getting personal and trolling out of humiliation and frustration.

As predictable as the sunrise with you.

How many people have you accused of lying here, under your new username? And have you admitted any of your own lies?

Given the above, I think my comment was entirely justified, and I can assure you there was no humiliation of frustration involved.

@fmf said
I think sitting alone and sleepless in the dark, in a hospital room ~ drips hooked up, machines beeping, realizing that my wife was on the brink of death ~ was an example of a foxhole: a dire predicament in which an atheist might turn to God.

I’m sorry for what you experienced as you are revealing more information about it.

Yes, an atheist might turn to God in such a situation.

My only point (before you stated your close relative, who you now stated is your wife, was unconscious) is that the thoughts, emotions, anxiety, fear, etc. of someone about to die are not the same as a person who is watching his loved one die.

@pb1022 said
Obviously, but not to the intensity of the person dying. And the anxiety and fear level would be vastly higher for the person about to die.

Again, if you had children or a loving partner of long-standing, you wouldn't make these silly statements.

@pb1022 said
You don’t think thoughts about the afterlife - what it’s like and whether it even exists - are a given for *anybody* about to die?

If I had resumed my belief in the afterlife on that terrible night and started praying to Jesus like I once used to, then that would have been the end of being an atheist, I suppose. That hospital room was a foxhole. And I was an atheist in it.

@fmf said
Perhaps there is no one you would lay your life down for. I have two sons. I would lay down my life for either of them in a heartbeat. One has to undergo certain experiences to comprehend what the intensity of a certain kind of love is like.

What you wrote here has nothing to do (imo) with your OP or my response to it.

We’re not talking about whether we would trade places with a close loved one who is about to die. We’re talking about whether our emotions, feelings, anxiety, fear, etc. are the same as the loved one who is about to die.

I say they’re not.

But I’m getting tired of repeating myself so carry on without me.

@pb1022 said
My only point (before you stated your close relative, who you now stated is your wife, was unconscious) is that the thoughts, emotions, anxiety, fear, etc. of someone about to die are not the same as a person who is watching his loved one die.

Have you ever loved someone so much you would choose to die if it would save them? Being in a predicament like that cannot be described as a foxhole?