@mike69 said
Foresight into the minds of some that call themselves by this name like you and show themselves as you do. How many of like mind think and feel the same towards Christian’s with this drive is the question. What other tools are they using through other mediums like politics, social influences, media, money, and break down of the fabric of humanity. The bigger more powerful ...[text shortened]... ls. Of course Christianity stands in the way of this along with those who believe. Tear them down.

What other tools are they using through to break down the fabric of humanity?

Two ideas:

[1] I suggest you pose this question to whoever "they" refers to.

[2] Start a thread entitled "Breaking down the fabric of humanity"

@kellyjay said
No, what I have an issue with is Atheism's lack of substance.

Theism is holding a belief that there is a god or gods.

Atheism is an absence of that belief in god or gods; what “substance” should it have?

@kellyjay said
Atheism underminds science

How does it do that?

@mike69 said
If you think your religion or belief system isn’t on the block, just wait.

That Kellyjay, you, plantermoo, Josephw, sonship, myself are not able to put forward a compelling reason for a belief in god or gods, does not mean that our “religion is on the block”.

It is this lazy circular logic which gets some theists into a victimhood mindset. In your country and in mine we have complete freedom of religion.

@kellyjay said

What faith could seriously be generated for the result of that to believe in anything? There is nothing about Atheism that gives us anything worthwhile outside of a distaste for God, Atheism doesn't give us anything, the universe cuts that worldview up, and I don't have to.

I don't have a distaste for your God Kelly, I don't believe he exists. Do I have a distaste for the Yeti, for Leprechauns?

And it's stories in your religious book that the universe, understood through science, cuts up and puts in the bin. Humanity did not originate in a garden. Jonah did not spend a long weekend inside a whale, the Earth never experienced a global flood etc etc etc

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I don't have a distaste for your God Kelly, I don't believe he exists. Do I have a distaste for the Yeti, for Leprechauns?

And it's stories in your religious book that the universe, understood through science, cuts up and puts in the bin. Humanity did not originate in a garden. Jonah did not spend a long weekend inside a whale, the Earth never experienced a global flood etc etc etc

As I said, there is no substance to Atheism as you and others here have described it, it is simply not taking a position in your mind, and that isn't an answer for or against. I recall a teacher once grading a paper and telling a student you don't rate a grade not even an "F" because what you wrote doesn't even reach the level of a wrong answer to the questions. A lack of belief isn't even a position on the subject, denying would be, so again, how can I say you are wrong if you cannot take up a position on the matter?

Where your position does take shape is when you start applying your lack of belief into describing the rest of the universe including science and scripture. It is automatically revealed nothing in scripture you'll accept, that is a rejection of the possibility, not just no faith at all, your verbiage changes when it is connected to anything outside of only your thought life.

When looking at the universe when evidence suggests something outside of the natural material universe, it is automatic that you reject out of hand anything that would suggest a mind was involved, or that something had to create the universe it could not create itself.

When looking at the information properties in life guiding life from the internal working of a cell to how the whole works together, you are still looking for that material cause that doesn't require something outside of life to pull that off, out of the rejection not the void in space where your brain has not pondered the God question.

@kellyjay said
Where your position does take shape is when you start applying your lack of belief into describing the rest of the universe including science and scripture. It is automatically revealed nothing in scripture you'll accept, that is a rejection of the possibility, not just no faith at all, your verbiage changes when it is connected to anything outside of only your thought life. ...[text shortened]... off, out of the rejection not the void in space where your brain has not pondered the God question.

But why should these musings be seen as demonstrating that all the claims laid out in ancient Hebrew folklore and its offshoot are true?

@kellyjay said
A lack of belief isn't even a position on the subject, denying would be, so again, how can I say you are wrong if you cannot take up a position on the matter?

My position is that there may be a creator entity, but we - neither you nor I - know. Why should people join your particular religion and subscribe to its various speculations?

@kellyjay said
When looking at the information properties in life guiding life from the internal working of a cell to how the whole works together, you are still looking for that material cause that doesn't require something outside of life to pull that off, out of the rejection not the void in space where your brain has not pondered the God question.

Your brain has not pondered the God question

You say this despite the fact there's ample evidence that Ghost of a Duke most certainly has "pondered the God question".

@kellyjay said
As I said, there is no substance to Atheism as you and others here have described it, it is simply not taking a position in your mind, and that isn't an answer for or against. I recall a teacher once grading a paper and telling a student you don't rate a grade not even an "F" because what you wrote doesn't even reach the level of a wrong answer to the questions. A lack of be ...[text shortened]... off, out of the rejection not the void in space where your brain has not pondered the God question.

To what “substance” are you referring? Talking snakes?

@moonbus said
To what “substance” are you referring? Talking snakes?

Rejecting the spiritual world out of hand turns every supernatural event into something like the talking snake, as soon as it is acknowledged supernatural events could be real, then even talking snakes are possible. The trouble any Atheist has is not with the snakes, it is with the material world and the restrictions of keeping everything only with material explanations, it is inadequate to explain the entire universe, and life which is much more than a snake, and unlike the snake, we are in this universe and live in the here and now.

So supernatural events are not natural, which is the point. We are talking about what is in the here and now, the universe, life, and all of its processes unlike the snake these things don't have a material explanation they are not in some book they are what we are alive, and live in the universe, material explanations alone don't add up to explain how it all started.

You can simply ignore the beginning pretend it isn't important, stick your head in the ground, and just say it doesn't affect your life, you don't want to be bothered. Ignore history you can paint the present any way you'd like and how can you be shown you are wrong? Not much different than atheists just saying they have no belief than acting out a belief that rejects, disconnects history, and disconnects owning your views from reality you can just say what you want. We have gotten so good at it that now people can reject biology and call themselves anything they want to the point some don't know the sex of a child by looking at them, our thoughts not reality are what some want, what do you think is more important than what it is we are thinking about.

@kellyjay said
You can simply ignore the beginning pretend it isn't important, stick your head in the ground, and just say it doesn't affect your life, you don't want to be bothered. Ignore history you can paint the present any way you'd like and how can you be shown you are wrong?

What "history" is it you claim that people who don't share your beliefs "ignore"?

@kellyjay said
Rejecting the spiritual world out of hand turns every supernatural event into something like the talking snake, as soon as it is acknowledged supernatural events could be real, then even talking snakes are possible. The trouble any Atheist has is not with the snakes, it is with the material world and the restrictions of keeping everything only with material explanations, it ...[text shortened]... ality are what some want, what do you think is more important than what it is we are thinking about.

You present a false dichotomy: either a fairy story about talking snakes and other supernatural (spiritual/occult) occurrences (graves opening and dead saints walking about, etc.), or a looney subjectivism in which anything goes and people don‘t even know what sex they are. There are other options than just these two. One of which is to believe the things for which we have solid and coherent evidence, which means evidence we can examine now not somebody’s say-so from 2,000 years ago, and to suspend judgment on the rest. I for one am not the sort of a-theist who claims to have a proof that God does NOT exist. I claim only that the putative proofs of the existence of a Creator Entity are logically faulty or based on inadequate or disputable evidence, and further that any proof of the existence of a Creator Entity to explain how everything got started is still not proof that THAT entity is the same as the God of Abraham who spoke to man and makes ethical demands of man. That would require a further proof, which is completely lacking in your posts and those of every other putative Christian here. A Creator Entity to explain how the universe got started could have been nothing more than a match which ignited a fire and was extinguished after the fire (the Big Bang or whatever) got lit.

@kellyjay said
As I said, there is no substance to Atheism

As I said, theism is holding a belief that there is a god or gods.

Atheism is an absence of that belief in god or gods; what “substance” should it have?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I don't have a distaste for your God Kelly, I don't believe he exists. Do I have a distaste for the Yeti, for Leprechauns?

And it's stories in your religious book that the universe, understood through science, cuts up and puts in the bin. Humanity did not originate in a garden. Jonah did not spend a long weekend inside a whale, the Earth never experienced a global flood etc etc etc

I respect and accept that and appreciate your honesty. We disagree but that’s ok and nothing wrong with it. If only the other people 😉 saw more than their reflection when looking in the mirror and had the intelligence to understand themselves and actions. Or they could just be honest.