24 Jul 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbySo that's a 'No I have no evidence at all' then, is it? Hiding behind quotations again, I see. 🙂
"To the person who finds the whole subject of Hell and judgment distasteful, and who refuses to believe it, even if Jesus Christ taught it, I ask the question: What about that little word “maybe”? Maybe there is a Hell." -Dr. Bruce W. Dunn
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by divegeesterThe Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15 NASB)
What is relevant and quite horrifying is that you choose to believe that the god of john 3:16 has intentionally created a place of eternal flesh melting incineration for those people who do not accept the "boundless love" (from Joseph) that john 3:16 describes.
What is also horrifying is that caljust will go further and state "there is no hell deep e ...[text shortened]... rally unsound, morally contradictory description of a psychotic torturing god quite astonishing.
"If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15*
"This is the saddest and most sobering passage in all of Scripture. Remember our Lord wept over death (John 11:35; Luke 19:41) - both physical death and especially the spiritual death (the second death) of all the unsaved, of all those who reject Him and His saving love offered at the cross. "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!" (Ezek. 33:11) Thus no man should be able to read or teach this passage without sorrow in his heart, if not tears in his eyes. The reason Jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else did is because He wanted no one to go there. "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9; also see John 3:16) Yet, we see here and throughout the Bible, both the reality of hell, eternal torment, and the justice of hell.
"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them." The next scene John saw was the great white throne with the Lord Jesus Christ sitting upon it. This is based on John 5:22: "Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father." (Also see John 5:22-29 that speaks of the resurrection of the saved and the unrepentant and 2 Tim. 4:1.) At this point in this unfolding revelation, all those saved, Old and New Testament saints, Tribulation saints, and by implication, Millennial saints, have all received their resurrected, glorified bodies and thus belong to the new creation (2 Cor. 5:17) as God is about to destroy the old creation, the heavens and the earth (v.11).
"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness." (See 2 Peter 3:7-13) "Since the coming of the Lord is in fact the end of the natural universe (2 Pet. 3:10-13), we read that there was found no place for them (v. 11), making way for a new heaven and a new earth to occupy the place left vacant by their dismissal" (21:1).Gregg, Steve: Revelation, Four Views : A Parallel Commentary. Nashville , Tenn. : T. Nelson Publishers, 1997. Satan and his demons have defiled the heavens (Eph. 6:12) and the earth is polluted and sin-soaked with the evil of fallen man. God's new creation will not just be a renovation and renewal as seen in the Millennium but an entirely new heaven and new earth. Science says that matter cannot be created or destroyed but God does both as seen here and in Genesis 1.
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life." What a scary and awe-filled scene like the one Daniel describes in his vision (Dan. 7: 9-10). It seems that all unsaved people from Cain to the last rebel we see in the Millennium are all together standing before the Lord Jesus ready to be judged based on their works (and books were opened) and sentenced by the Judge of all. Scripture says no one is righteous, no one keeps the law and no one is saved by works of righteousness (e.g., See Rom. 3-4) because even our best deeds are as filthy rags [menstrual rags] compared to the pure white perfect righteousness of God (Isa. 64:6). The righteousness that God requires for a person to be saved is the perfect righteousness a righteous God is required to require. (Matt. 5:48) Thus the only way to be saved is by grace (God's undeserved forgiveness and favor) through faith (in what God in Christ did for us on the cross when He took the punishment for all of our sins and credited us with His perfect righteousness), and not by works (Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Cor. 5:21)." Thread 157295
http://www.kenboa.org/text_resources/teaching_letters/lens_mens_fellowship/6640
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI have been ~ in this instance ~ waiting for pages for you to stop evading the simple point blank question. "Stay alert" is just more evasion. One wonders how your religious beliefs can end up making you so furtive and interpersonally hamstrung when you profess to be so certain about them. 🙂
Stay alert.
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonhousehttp://www.ncsec.org/cadre2/team2_2/Articles/articles.htm
Sounds like cognitive dissonance, you believe the Earth or life on Earth to be 6K years old. I have heard the idea that dinosaurs are life. So if they were invented, or printed on a cosmic 3D printer, they would have also DIED less than 6K years ago and would still have carbon in their bones and therefore would carbon date to 6000 years ago. Dino's don't ha ...[text shortened]... ILLION years.
You can't turn bone into stone in 6000 years and you can take that to the bank.
(1) We cannot expect that all or even most of the organisms that have lived on Earth will be represented in the fossil record. On the contrary, only a few, living in favored environments and possessing hard parts, will have any likelihood of being preserved (a large number of known phyla have no members which possess hard parts, and most phyla have members which possess no hard parts). On top of this, the vast majority of fossils have not been discovered since they have either eroded away previously or remain buried and out of reach. So the fossil record is not a comprehensive record of all life that has existed on Earth. Nor is the rock record a comprehensive record of all environments that have existed. Further, with regard to transitional fossils, is has become apparent in recent years that evolution does not necessarily proceed in a constant, gradual manner over geological time, but can operate rapidly, in isolated populations. Such evolution results in small populations of intermediates separated by very short periods of geological time. such scenarios are unlikely to make it into the fossil record to begin with, let alone survive to be found. Thus preservation of any fossil from a transitional series will be rare.
(2) The rate of sedimentation is not too slow to preserve organisms. The vast majority are preserved by rapid sedimentation entirely in accordance with modern geological theories.
You may want to read the whole thing.
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIt's not irrlevant to the thread per-se; it is irrelevant to the point of main contention in this thread, which is the "eternal" aspect of your version of hell.
The focus of Dr. Bruce W. Dunn's three articles, which complete the original post,
is unbelievers in Christ. What would be relevant to this thread in your opinion?
But I think you knew exactly what I meant didn't you.
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhy do you keep trying to convince me there is a hell?
The Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15 NASB)
"If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15*
"This is the saddest and most sobering passage in all of Scripture. [i]Remember our Lord wept over death (John 11:35; Luke 19:41) - both physical death and especially the ...[text shortened]... 95[/threadid]
http://www.kenboa.org/text_resources/teaching_letters/lens_mens_fellowship/6640
My contention with you is that you imagine and believe in an eternal hell where your particular version of the Christian god tortures people by burning them in an incinerator - for all eternity.
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by divegeesterThe immaterial part of divegeester was created by God at birth. One day that soul life will return to God: Ecclesiastes 12:7
It's not irrlevant to the thread per-se; it is irrelevant to the point of main contention in this thread, which is the "eternal" aspect of your version of hell.
But I think you knew exactly what I meant didn't you.
Remember God in Your Youth: "12: 1. Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, “I have no delight in them”; 2. before the sun and the light, the moon and the stars are darkened, and clouds return after the rain; 3. in the day that the watchmen of the house tremble, and mighty men stoop, the grinding ones stand idle because they are few, and those who look through [a]windows grow dim;
4. and the doors on the street are shut as the sound of the grinding mill is low, and one will arise at the sound of the bird, and all the daughters of song will [b]sing softly. 5. Furthermore, [c]men are afraid of a high place and of terrors on the road; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags himself along, and the caperberry is ineffective. For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street. 6. Remember Him before the silver cord is [d]broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed;
7. then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the [e]spirit will return to God who gave it. 8. “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”
9. In addition to being a wise man, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge; and he pondered, searched out and arranged many proverbs. 10. The Preacher sought to find delightful words and to write words of truth correctly.
11. The words of wise men are like goads, and masters of these collections are like [f]well-driven nails; they are given by one Shepherd. 12. But beyond this, my son, be warned: the [g]writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
13. The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."
Footnotes: a.Ecclesiastes 12:3 Or holes; b.Ecclesiastes 12:4 Lit be brought low; c.Ecclesiastes 12:5 Lit they; d.Ecclesiastes 12:6 So with Gr; Heb removed; e.Ecclesiastes 12:7 Or breath; f.Ecclesiastes 12:11 Lit planted
g.Ecclesiastes 12:12 Lit making. New American Standard Bible
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by divegeesterThe focus of Dunn's articles and this entire thread isn't divegeester; it's our friends here who have chosen against Christ.
Why do you keep trying to convince me there is a hell?
My contention with you is that you imagine and believe in an eternal hell where your particular version of the Christian god tortures people by burning them in an incinerator - for all eternity.
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by divegeester"What would be relevant to this thread in your opinion?"
It's not irrlevant to the thread per-se; it is irrelevant to the point of main contention in this thread, which is the "eternal" aspect of your version of hell.
But I think you knew exactly what I meant didn't you.
24 Jul 14
Originally posted by FMFStay alert. Why? Because one of these days your washboard forehead just may let a new idea/insight in; and light will dawn.
I have been ~ in this instance ~ waiting for pages for you to stop evading the simple point blank question. "Stay alert" is just more evasion. One wonders how your religious beliefs can end up making you so furtive and interpersonally hamstrung when you profess to be so certain about them. 🙂
24 Jul 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI have already had the light dawn; I am an ex-Christian as a result. But I am always curious about how people like you seem to have no idea how to communicate with non-believers, ex-believers, believers of other things and atheists. You even have difficulty communicating with some of your fellow Christians. So avoid answering point blank questions by all means; talk about washboard foreheads by all means; claim that this thread is aimed at "unbelievers" by all means, even if it comes across to me simply as you preening yourself. If you do ever offer "a new idea/insight" that amounts to something relevant to my real life and not just something from your imagination, I will be the first to let you know and thank you for it. 😀
Stay alert. Why? Because one of these days your washboard forehead just may let a new idea/insight in; and light will dawn.