Coercion and deterrence and assertions

@fmf said
@PB1022

You seem to be really gagging to gain traction with me.

You usually get personal and resort to this type of nonsense when your thinking, such as it is, has been shown to be deficient.

Traction that, punkin’

@josephw said
If God tells you something are you going to believe it?

God is the final authority. You can question God's created all day long, but don't believe a word they say.

God isn't "hiding" anything, and if He does, well, that's His prerogative.

But God certainly isn't hiding Jesus under a basket. Jesus is hanging on a cross in full view of the whole world.

Jesus is the way of escape from death.

Reading the bible is not the same as “god speaking speaking to you”. This is such a dishonest assertion and deflects from the issue of “being told by god”.

@fmf said
As I thought, you were just making assertions. So what about the issues raised by the OP and the subsequent posts which ARE about supernatural punishment?

If true, if you believe them or not, they are true; being warned about them would be no different than seeing a sign that says bridge out danger and ignoring it because you believe the sign was making an assertion.

Your thoughts about the people who share what they think have nothing to do with the truthfulness of what is shared, any more than the people's thoughts about you have anything to do with the truthfulness of those things you share.

@kellyjay said
If true, if you believe them or not, they are true; being warned about them would be no different than seeing a sign that says bridge out danger and ignoring it because you believe the sign was making an assertion.

Your thoughts about the people who share what they think have nothing to do with the truthfulness of what is shared, any more than the people's thoughts about you have anything to do with the truthfulness of those things you share.

Don’t be so ridiculous KellyJay, a person’s moral, intellectual and communicative credibility has everything to do with how what they are saying is received.

@kellyjay said
If true, if you believe them or not, they are true; being warned about them would be no different than seeing a sign that says bridge out danger and ignoring it because you believe the sign was making an assertion.

Your thoughts about the people who share what they think have nothing to do with the truthfulness of what is shared, any more than the people's thoughts about you have anything to do with the truthfulness of those things you share.

You making assertions about how very, very, very true your beliefs about supernatural punishment are, while any reality that the supernatural punishment in question actually exists is being kept from non-believers, is what this thread is about. Do you really think your assertions about supernatural punishment in tandem with some religious literature you just so happen to subscribe to is evidence that what you believe is true? I don't think you do, to be frank.

@kellyjay said
If true, if you believe them or not, they are true; being warned about them would be no different than seeing a sign that says bridge out danger and ignoring it because you believe the sign was making an assertion.

There will be objective evidence that the bridge exists, that it is out, and that it being damaged represents actual danger.

Your suggestion that you provide some kind of 'warning sign' by reciting your beliefs about supernatural punishment ~ when your claims are unprovable [unlike the actual bridge being actually down and falling into the actual river is actually dangerous] ~ is giving off a definite whiff of narcissism.

@divegeester said
Don’t be so ridiculous KellyJay, a person’s moral, intellectual and communicative credibility has everything to do with how what they are saying is received.

I am simply pointing out that the truth they talk about doesn't change because of their credibility with us; no one is saying believe this because I'm so well received what is being said; this is the truth, which you may choose to ignore. If there were no flaws, the ranker, and insults that are cast about here, I'm sure would invent some to find some reason real or not to take what is said seriously.

@kellyjay said
I am simply pointing out that the truth they talk about doesn't change because of their credibility with us; no one is saying believe this because I'm so well received what is being said; this is the truth, which you may choose to ignore.

You seem to be saying that if the "truth" you believe in is good enough for you, then it's good enough for everyone, and the punishment for not seeing it the same way as you see it is eternal torture. And yet, all the assertions you make are subjective; you offer no evidence that supernatural punishment exists aside from religious literature.

@kellyjay said
I am simply pointing out that the truth they talk about doesn't change because of their credibility with us; no one is saying believe this because I'm so well received what is being said; this is the truth, which you may choose to ignore. If there were no flaws, the ranker, and insults that are cast about here, I'm sure would invent some to find some reason real or not to take what is said seriously.

You sound a little like Fetchmyjunk/dj2becker, asserting that universal truth is objective and it’s own reward and him being a total douche was irrelevant. You also sound a lot like sonship, blogging his stuff on and on irrespective of him having no respect in this forum because he is ignorant of how to communicate.

No one here knows who you are, surely you don’t expect to rock up, dump some of your religious beliefs in a post and expect God to supernaturally turn your words into the sword of truth?

Do you?

@pb1022 said
<<But God certainly isn't hiding Jesus under a basket. Jesus is hanging on a cross in full view of the whole world.>>

He’s no longer on the cross. That’s why I don’t like crucifixes.

The crucifixes that people (presumably Christians) wear around their necks are a symbol representing the cross at Calvary, and what happened there that day.

Jesus may not still be 'on' the cross, but it is a powerful symbol of the sacrifice he made for us.

Disclaimer: I often wear a small gold crucifix. I have several, many of them given to me, and they have sentimental value.

Second dislaimer (edit): I used the word 'crucifix', not understanding that this is actually defined as an image of Jesus on the cross. What I meant was a simple plain cross, and that's what I thought you were talking about.

@fmf said
There will be objective evidence that the bridge exists, that it is out, and that it being damaged represents actual danger.

Your suggestion that you provide some kind of 'warning sign' by reciting your beliefs about supernatural punishment ~ when your claims are unprovable [unlike the actual bridge being actually down and falling into the actual river is actually dangerous] ~ is giving off a definite whiff of narcissism.

It is faith, what we trust in; if I could provide proof, it wouldn't be faith; it would be proven. You know, as I do, none of us will make it out of this life alive, so what is to come is coming to us all without exception. A real danger, you can deny it no different than you can also deny the bridge being out. We know that justice is real, and if we think right now, we can do things and get away with it; if we just don't get caught here, we are free and clear, is also an assertion. The same power that created the universe put in place our notions of fairness, justice, goodness, and so on; these are not terms a material world would ever come up with on its own. We know thirst because it is something we can satisfy here with a drink, we know hunger is something we can satisfy with food, and we understand justice when we see wrongs done and if there are those that leave this world without paying the price for their crimes in this life, like drink and food, that answer is coming as well.

@kellyjay said
It is faith, what we trust in; if I could provide proof, it wouldn't be faith; it would be proven.

OK. Now, having said this, go back and address the OP and subsequent posts.

@kellyjay said
You know, as I do, none of us will make it out of this life alive, so what is to come is coming to us all without exception.

None of us will make it out of this life alive. But is there any credible evidence that there is anything after death ~ aside from your faith and the religious literature you subscribe to?

@kellyjay said
A real danger, you can deny it no different than you can also deny the bridge being out.

Still with the dud bridge analogy?

@kellyjay said
We know that justice is real, and if we think right now, we can do things and get away with it; if we just don't get caught here, we are free and clear, is also an assertion.

Supernatural "justice"? "We" know it is real? Do "we"?