@fmf said
It has nothing to do with whether it's appealing or not.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Romans 3:20

No one can stand before God with their resume of good works and be declared righteous. God is perfect and holy and can not tolerate sin. So unless you are perfect, do not bother to put your trust in your good works, for they can not save you.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think Dive was bang on the money. What you described wasn't biblical, and appeared to be something that was appealing to your personal sentiments.

@fmf said
No, you are mistaken. It has nothing to do with whether it's appealing or with personal sentiments.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think you need to revisit scripture objectively and put aside your personal sentiments.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke
So now you are riffing on the buzz words "personal sentiments" while there are maybe half a dozen points made on previous pages that you have simply blanked out.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'Yes, the receiver of the Spirit maintains the ability to choose, but does so having been transformed and is guided internally by the Spirit.'

@fmf said
A believer may well be motivated by their belief in the "Spirit", and this motivation or "guidance" may well lead to decisions to engage in good works, all this is clear. But there is no "salvation" without those good works, no matter how strong the beliefs are.

Titus 3:4-6
English Standard Version
But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

@ghost-of-a-duke said
A believer is not simply motivated by the Spirit, they are transformed by the Spirit, as a result of the faith that has secured them salvation. Good works are a by product of this.

@kellyjay said
Titus 3:4-6
English Standard Version
But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

@fmf said
Yes, works without faith won't result in "salvation" according to Christian teaching. But faith without works won't either.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It's a moot point. Genuine faith will lead to good works.

@kevin-eleven said
Why do some people say that God is unknowable and beyond human imagination, while also making assertions about God and Its attributes?

If the Bible is to be taken as the source code on this then:
Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the giftof God.

Ron 3:28
For we conclude that a man is justified by faith without works of law.


However alongside that

James 2:20
Faith without works is dead.

Therefore the saved person is saved without works but their ongoing faith needs to be kept alive through good works of that faith. Being subsequently without good works does not mean they were never saved or will lose their salvation.