-Removed-And give you fodder for disagreeing with something else I might believe? I don't think so.
Your description of heaven sounds suspiciously like the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So as far as I'm concerned this is no longer simply a question of honesty, there is also a question of trust. I'm not sure I can trust you to be honest.
Originally posted by lemon limeThis has nothing to do with my comments in this thread. Are you just trying to change the topic?
I'm not surprised this would be problem for you, because we had a discussion once (at the science forum) about a point in time (a starting point) when we were talking about the big bang.
You kept telling me there was no starting point in space, and I couldn't seem to get you to understand I was talking about a starting point in time... not space.
Can you reference the thread, because I strongly suspect you are mischaracterizing what was said. Why didn't you just say 'I am talking about a starting point in time'? What was so hard about that?
But this isn't the science forum, so I won't be examining topics here (at this forum) in strictly scientific terms.
As always, you make a comment then announce you will not be discussing it. Then later, you will claim that it was other people that didn't want to discuss it.
And by the way, there must have been a starting point in time, because if there was no starting point then how are we able to determine the age of the universe? From where would we begin counting?
We don't necessarily consider the universe to be all of time. If there was something before the big bang, then we might choose not to include it as part of what we call 'the universe'.
But whatever our naming conventions, current counts are determined from the big bang, and that can be done regardless of whether or not time started then, so your conclusion is clearly wrong.
However, I for one have never disputed the possibility that time started at some point. I do dispute that there is good reason to think that it did.
-Removed-It's not a question of what we "deserve". We deserve nothing but have chosen to accept a grace gift which is eternal:
All believers in Christ are secure for time and eternity. Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29b).
And: Ephesians 4:30 Confirms that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption."
And: John 3:15-16 Confirms that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If it could be taken away, it wasn't ever "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security isn't true, the promises of eternal life in the Word of God are erroneous.
And Paul's powerful statement for eternal security in Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Our eternal security is purchased by Christ; promised by the Father; and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhat is the purpose behind your God figure seeking revenge against ~ and torturing ~ those who don't believe any of this?
It's not a question of what we "deserve". We deserve nothing but have chosen to accept a grace gift which is eternal:
All believers in Christ are secure for time and eternity. Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater t ...[text shortened]... eternal security is purchased by Christ; promised by the Father; and sealed by the Holy Spirit.