A question of honesty

Originally posted by DeepThought
Is duckspeak a reference to 1984? Orwell refers to people speaking newspeak as quacking.

For me the word duckspeak, coined by Orwell, depicts regurgitating dogmatic word strings and quotations instead of engaging in a genuine or sincere way. When pressed to account for what they profess to believe or how they behave, religionists often resort to it, in my view.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I read this reply yesterday and didn't see how it had answered the question, but after reflection I think that its about as coherent an answer to the question as is possible.

There was a science fiction author called Iain M. Banks who wrote a bunch of novels set within a space faring civilization called the Culture. In them he had a sort of technolog ...[text shortened]... ering the irreal the concerns of this universe, including anyone left behind, stopped mattering.

It's funny you should say that, because it seemed to me I was only answering one persons question. It didn't answer anything else as far as I could see. And all I could really say about it (how does God do that) was "I don't know". LOL

I get what you're saying (if this was your point) about how my perception of an afterlife sounds curiously like science fiction/fantasy. It struck me that way as well.

There was a sci/fi novel entitled Childhoods End (Author C Clark?) where humanity had reached a point in their development where some big evolutionary change was about to take place, and alien spaceships arrived to help humanity with this. The aliens looked like Mr Spock (the author said they all looked like Satan) and their own evolutionary advancement had become fixed. They were logical in their thinking and understood empirical science, but humanity was apparently on the edge of becoming something entirely different... a higher plane of existence and understanding, beyond what the technologically advanced aliens were now capable of.

It went on to describe humanity in general and how they had lost all interest in normal activities. All of the children were whisked up into some higher dimensional reality while the adults were left on earth to live out their lives. Humanity would die out and become extinct because the purpose of their lives had been accomplished, and nothing else interested them except to entertain themselves until they died... they even lost interest in doing what it takes to have and raise kids. 😲

I couldn't help noticing how it somewhat paralleled last day prophesy, except for the part where the aliens all looked like Satan... I thought that was a bit too obvious. It looked like an attempt to see the Devil in a new and more sympathetic light. I wasn't a Christian at the time, but it still seemed a bit cheesy and an obvious slap in the face at people who have no sympathy for the devil.

Originally posted by lemon lime
And all I could really say about it (how does God do that) was "I don't know". LOL. I get what you're saying (if this was your point) about how my perception of an afterlife sounds curiously like science fiction/fantasy. It struck me that way as well.

This is why I think you sell yourself short when you dismiss people who perceive reality differently from you as "goofs who think reality will bend to their will and become whatever they wish it to be."

Originally posted by lemon lime
It's funny you should say that, because it seemed to me I was only answering one persons question. It didn't answer anything else as far as I could see. And all I could really say about it (how does God do that) was "I don't know". LOL

I get what you're saying (if this was your point) about how my perception of an afterlife sounds curious ...[text shortened]... eemed a bit cheesy and an obvious slap in the face at people who have no sympathy for the devil.

I just checked, and it was Arthur C. Clarke who wrote Childhoods End.

-Removed-

divegeester, here's the objective reality: The place named the Lake of Fire in the Great White Throne Judgment Passage

"11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:11-15

is real or it isn't real. If it's real, accept or reject it. If it isn't real, your salvation and mine and of all other believers in Christ since time began are in jeopardy: if it is not real God's Veracity is flawed; He is not Immutable; His Word has no authority.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
...If it's real, accept or reject it. If it isn't real, your salvation and mine and of all other believers in Christ since time began are in jeopardy: if it is not real God's Veracity is flawed; He is not Immutable; His Word has no authority.[/i]

The fact that things are destroyed by fire and cease to exist is an "immutable" fact, surely? If so, your extraordinary extrapolations and assertions about torture by fire for eternity do not have much in the way of "authority", do they?

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Grampy Bobby said to you: "If it's real, accept or reject it. If it isn't real, your salvation and mine and of all other believers in Christ since time began are in jeopardy: if it is not real God's Veracity is flawed; He is not Immutable; His Word has no authority."

So if you disagree with Grampy Bobby's personal interpretation, or if Grampy Bobby is wrong, then "God's Word has no authority" and the salvation of all Christians is "in jeopardy".

The stakes are high in Christendom, it seems. It comes down to Grampy Bobby's personal interpretation and your willingness to simply accept it!

😉

-Removed-

One of them recently boasted that he'd rather die than make/admit to making a mistake about Biblical interpretation. With a hairy Christian chest being beaten with self-anointed fists in this way, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for "I could be wrong" to come into play.

Originally posted by lemon lime
It's funny you should say that, because it seemed to me I was only answering one persons question. It didn't answer anything else as far as I could see. And all I could really say about it (how does God do that) was "I don't know". LOL

I get what you're saying (if this was your point) about how my perception of an afterlife sounds curious ...[text shortened]... eemed a bit cheesy and an obvious slap in the face at people who have no sympathy for the devil.

I think it was the same question, I was hanging on divegeester and bbarr's coattails. Science fiction is the genre that most allows these ideas to be explored, concepts like "realer than real" don't easily fit into a romantic comedy. The reason I mentioned the Iain M Banks version of heaven is that it has the "leaving behind" component. It's a device to confirm that what I understood by your statement corresponds with your conception.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I think it was the same question, I was hanging on divegeester and bbarr's coattails. Science fiction is the genre that most allows these ideas to be explored, concepts like "realer than real" don't easily fit into a romantic comedy. The reason I mentioned the Iain M Banks version of heaven is that it has the "leaving behind" component. It's a device to confirm that what I understood by your statement corresponds with your conception.

What I was trying to convey by "waking up from a dream" was that your memory of life here would naturally fade, and the reality of where you now find yourself would take over. This is one reason (not the only reason) why I believe you wouldn't be clinging to past regrets, or feel anguish over someone who doesn't inhabit the reality you are now fully cognizant of.

When is a dream is over, whatever you experienced in that dream loses its importance because it no longer feels 'real' to you. Or at least not as real as where you find yourself after waking up. As I said before, it would require a radical shift in how we understand what it means to wake up from a dream, because we have become accustomed to what dreams are and what it means to wake up from them.

There was something else I wanted to say to you about the difference between Science and 'Natural' Science, but it belongs on one of these other threads. I slept in today and have only been up and awake for about 20 minutes, so it will take awhile before I get around to that topic... I'm still waiting for this particular 'waking' reality to come into full focus.