@kevcvs57 saidIt's ridiculous self-parody for you to accuse others of reverting to a Cold War mentality when it's quite clear you have retained the vision of an unspeakably evil Russia determined to conquer Europe and which can only be prevented from doing so by a Cold War relic military alliance.
Who cares what they care about, come to that No1 who what you care about. Russia is the aggressor on the European continent at this juncture, if putting Putin’s Russia back behind their own border and worse off than they were before they began this war then that’ll do this constant reference to neocons and neolibs is sort of nonsensical unless you truly believe that NATO has ...[text shortened]... have respect for diversity of all kinds against one that has no respect for any of that woke stuff.
09 Oct 22
@kevcvs57 saidThe USA is the aggressor in Syria. This "do what we say, not as we do" mentality is sick and twisted. The USA set the precedent for unprovoked invasions.
Who cares what they care about, come to that No1 who what you care about. Russia is the aggressor on the European continent at this juncture, if putting Putin’s Russia back behind their own border and worse off than they were before they began this war then that’ll do this constant reference to neocons and neolibs is sort of nonsensical unless you truly believe that NATO has ...[text shortened]... have respect for diversity of all kinds against one that has no respect for any of that woke stuff.
The USA set the precedent for using nukes on another country.
You support a policy of hypocrisy.
09 Oct 22
@metal-brain saidThe latter: absolutely.
The USA is the aggressor in Syria. This "do what we say, not as we do" mentality is sick and twisted. The USA set the precedent for unprovoked invasions.
The USA set the precedent for using nukes on another country.
You support a policy of hypocrisy.
The former: unplug your head from your arse before you rumble like a demented wayoma.
You do comprehend that the US’s history is short… historically short… compared to most other countries. And that unprovoked invasions have been happening since the stone age…
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09 Oct 22
@no1marauder saidAnd yet, here you are, defending the mass-rapists and murderers as if you were an American politician defending the Mÿ Lai atrocities.
It's ridiculous self-parody for you to accuse others of reverting to a Cold War mentality when it's quite clear you have retained the vision of an unspeakably evil Russia determined to conquer Europe and which can only be prevented from doing so by a Cold War relic military alliance.
Oh, I'm sure you'll claim that you're not defending Putin. But you're not fooling anyone, Fellow Traveller. Your one sentence is "I'm not defending Putin" - and your next sentence is a parroting of Putin's blaming his own atrocities on NATO.
You're behaving like a Soviet agitprop agent, and you know it.
09 Oct 22
UPDATE:
Kremlin, shifting blame for war failures, axes military commanders
Russian Ground Forces Gen. Alexander Dvornikov, who over a 44-year military career was best-known for scorched-earth tactics in campaigns he led in Syria and Chechnya, was named overall operational commander of the war in Ukraine in April. He lasted about seven weeks before being dismissed as part of a wider shake-up in response to heavy losses and strategic failures.
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-10-07/kremlin-fires-military-commanders-7611381.html
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Russian draft dodgers pour into Kazakhstan to escape Putin’s war
Almaty, Kazakhstan
CNN
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Vadim says he plunged into depression last month after Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military draft to send hundreds of thousands of conscripts to fight in Ukraine.
“I was silent,” the 28-year-old engineer says, explaining that he simply stopped talking while at work. “I was angry and afraid.”
When Russia’s invasion of Ukraine began in February, Vadim says he took to the streets of Moscow to protest – but Putin’s September 21 order to draft at least 300,000 men to fight felt like a point of no return.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/09/europe/russia-draft-dodgers-kazakhstan-intl-hnk/index.html
10 Oct 22
@shavixmir saidSo unprovoked invasions are normal. Then why the demonization of Russia? Are invasions only horrible if Russia does them? When did unprovoked invasions become unacceptable to you? Before or after the invasion of Libya?
The latter: absolutely.
The former: unplug your head from your arse before you rumble like a demented wayoma.
You do comprehend that the US’s history is short… historically short… compared to most other countries. And that unprovoked invasions have been happening since the stone age…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya
10 Oct 22
@no1marauder saidHa yeah because I’d definitely have to imagine Putin’s Russia of being evil. It’s your Cold War rebel mentality that is excusing everything that Russia does because they are not the unspeakably evil NATO a voluntary alliance of democratic nations who only crime is allow itself to be use as a tool of your foreign policy you hypocrite.
It's ridiculous self-parody for you to accuse others of reverting to a Cold War mentality when it's quite clear you have retained the vision of an unspeakably evil Russia determined to conquer Europe and which can only be prevented from doing so by a Cold War relic military alliance.
10 Oct 22
@kevcvs57 saidI'll mention to the People of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia etc. etc. etc. how NATO has never committed any crimes.
Ha yeah because I’d definitely have to imagine Putin’s Russia of being evil. It’s your Cold War rebel mentality that is excusing everything that Russia does because they are not the unspeakably evil NATO a voluntary alliance of democratic nations who only crime is allow itself to be use as a tool of your foreign policy you hypocrite.
10 Oct 22
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@no1marauder saidThat’s a very mixed bag and only a propagandist would lump together the mission brief of Libya and Serbia with the mission creep of Afghanistan and the atrocity of Iraq.
I'll mention to the People of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia etc. etc. etc. how NATO has never committed any crimes.
10 Oct 22
@kevcvs57 saidIt's a "bag" of military incursions into other countries, none of which had anything to do with the declared defensive purpose of NATO.
That’s a very mixed bag and only a propagandist would lump together the mission brief of Libya and Serbia with the mission creep of Afghanistan and the atrocity of Iraq.
Hundreds of thousands died in those incursions and countries were left in political and physical ruin by them.
Does this not amount to "crimes" in IYO? Or are you going to insist that these military adventures only occurred because of Western leaders obsessive concern with the well-being of the People in non-NATO countries?
11 Oct 22
1 edit
@no1marauder saidNo I’ve said umpteen times the the Iraq war was a war crime and bush and Blair should be in The Hague, perhaps if you stopped emulating MB on this subject you’d be able to recall that fact.
It's a "bag" of military incursions into other countries, none of which had anything to do with the declared defensive purpose of NATO.
Hundreds of thousands died in those incursions and countries were left in political and physical ruin by them.
Does this not amount to "crimes" in IYO? Or are you going to insist that these military adventures only occurred because of Western leaders obsessive concern with the well-being of the People in non-NATO countries?
War crimes were undoubtedly committed in Afghanistan but the initial invasion was justified as retaliation / defence after 9/11 but why they stayed for 20 years is something you should be asking successive Republican and Democrat administrations about.
The others were simply not invasions, they were literally short lived specific military operations.
Historically NATO isn’t the problem, US foreign policy is and if you think Iraq, Afghan and ,Libya wouldn’t have happened without NATO you are terminally naive.
11 Oct 22
@kevcvs57 saidI already told you that NATO was the military arm of neoliberalism so an objection about US foreign policy is besides the point; that the alliance has been a loyal lapdog to that policy is a design feature not a flaw.
No I’ve said umpteen times the the Iraq war was a war crime and bush and Blair should be in The Hague, perhaps if you stopped emulating MB on this subject you’d be able to recall that fact.
War crimes were undoubtedly committed in Afghanistan but the initial invasion was justified as retaliation / defence after 9/11 but why they stayed for 20 years is something you should b ...[text shortened]... d if you think Iraq, Afghan and ,Libya wouldn’t have happened without NATO you are terminally naive.
I see little difference between Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya; all were meant to and caused regime change (an illegitimate excuse for military operations). The dual interventions in the Balkans seem to have been designed to humble Serbia which had the misfortune of being somewhat allied with Russia and not too interested in Euro integration. Those also are invalid reasons for war.
11 Oct 22
@no1marauder said“ @no1marauder said
I already told you that NATO was the military arm of neoliberalism so an objection about US foreign policy is besides the point; that the alliance has been a loyal lapdog to that policy is a design feature not a flaw.
I see little difference between Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya; all were meant to and caused regime change (an illegitimate excuse for military operations). ...[text shortened]... lied with Russia and not too interested in Euro integration. Those also are invalid reasons for war.
I already told you that NATO was the military arm of neoliberalism so an objection about US foreign policy is besides the point; that the alliance has been a loyal lapdog to that policy is a design feature not a flaw.”
No it’s not beside the question it’s the crux of the question. It’s the US that needs to reform itself and not dragoon NATO into these far flung adventures.
NATO is fundamentally / ideally an alliance of democratic nations who want to protect themselves and their freedom from exactly what Putin has done to Russia and is now trying to do to Ukraine.
You seem to think that the threat of totalitarian government disappeared at the end of the Cold War and nato can just pack itself up.
I think it’s probably time that you explain what you mean by Neo Liberalism, it sounds like the biggest insult you can muster but I cannot believe it’s worse than Neo Stalinism or even Neo Peter the Greatism.
Europe is going to have to face Putin down with or without the US because a Putinesque regime that thinks it can dominate a modern Europe makes a massive conflagration inevitable so it’s much better for everyone including Russia that NATO makes sure he doesn’t see a greater Russia as a viable option.
11 Oct 22
@kevcvs57 saidNeo Liberalism means serving the interests of capitalists above all.
“ @no1marauder said
I already told you that NATO was the military arm of neoliberalism so an objection about US foreign policy is besides the point; that the alliance has been a loyal lapdog to that policy is a design feature not a flaw.”
No it’s not beside the question it’s the crux of the question. It’s the US that needs to reform itself and not dragoon NATO int ...[text shortened]... r everyone including Russia that NATO makes sure he doesn’t see a greater Russia as a viable option.
11 Oct 22
1 edit
@kevcvs57 - War crimes were undoubtedly committed in Afghanistan but the initial invasion was justified as retaliation / defence after 9/11 but why they stayed for 20 years is something you should be asking successive Republican and Democrat administrations about.
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Correct.
The US went in to capture OBL who was in Pakistan. then later, he was DEAD.
but the US stayed on and on and on. Totally bogus war.