@sonship saidNo, it wasn't. It was relatively recently. And it was about a very similar matter. You said asking you to substantiate your claim that you are "becoming like Jesus" and "Jesus is flowing through" you was me being "unbelievably evil". Now, I am asking you to substantiate your claim that that your human spirit is "running like a six cylinder car" and not running like it has "only four cylinders" because of your belief in Jesus.
My comment about you being "unbelievably evil" was concerning an entirely different matter quite long ago.
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Other indications of the spirit in the Bible being distinct from the soul.
In speaking of worship Paul says that he can pray using the mind (which is part of the human soul) and also pray with his spirit. He can also sing with his mind (which is part of the soul) and he can sing with his spirit.
"What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the mind;
I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing also with the mind." (1 Cor. 14:14)
He is speaking of the regenerated human spirit which in the Christian has been enlivened and joined to the Lord.
He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)
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@FMF
And I will "blog away" at some other comments I want to make to others.
Maybe after that I'll go back and consider some of your questions.
I'm happy if you think you only have a human soul. Run with that.
Everybody doesn't have to join you.
@sonship saidI don't think your apologies mean anything. Do you think they do?
If you are trying to tell me "sonship, my feelings are still hurt" I did apologize to everyone here about things which I said which were overly hurtful. Remember?
There was a thread I started about your claim that I was "unbelievably evil" for challenging you. I just looked at that thread. I see you doubling down. But I don't see your apology.
At one point, you said: "The nature of FMF's challenges in this particular regard smell the same to me - evil."
You were comparing the interactions between you and me to "the Devil" tempting Jesus. You were the Jesus figure in the analogy.
Was that your 'apology'?
So now you are saying I WASN'T "unbelievably evil" on that occasion?
In your moral world, what is and isn't "unbelievably evil" can ebb and flow and change even within a couple of months?
@sonship saidBut it IS related to this subject. And I am asking you about it, not "parading" it.
Why are you finding it useful to parade it out now as if that dispute was related to this subject?
In the previous thread, you compared me to "the Devil" [and yourself to Jesus] for me challenging you about the self-aggrandizing claims you were making about yourself.
Well, now I am challenging you about the self-aggrandizing claims you are making about yourself again.
Do you believe my motive is "unbelievably evil"?
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I showed Paul talking about singing and praying with his spirit as well as with his mind.
This should be enough to indicate that the mind is not in the spirit. The mind is a part of the human soul. We who have been instructed about this regard the human spirit as something in human beings "deeper" then the human mind.
Now here Paul speaks not of the Holy Spirit but the human spirits of the prophets.
"For you can all prophesy one by one that all may learn and all may be encourage.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of order." (1 Cor. 14:31-33)
The phrase "the spirits of the prophets" proves that Paul's thought here is the human spirit.
His verse is somewhat of a criticism of meetings of confusion where Christians are attributing chaotic speaking to the Holy Spirit. Some Pentacostal meetings can be unruly and confused.
Paul says , one by one, with self control, you Christians can in an ordely manner exercise your Holy Spirit indwelt human spirit You may one by one speak forth something of God to encourage one another.
The human spirit, he teaches, is subject to you. You have self control over its exercise and usage.
@sonship saidIs it, do you think, my human spirit, that leads me to find your religious beliefs non-credible and morally incoherent? Is it the free and honest exercise of my human spirit that has resulted in me being an agnostic atheist, to your way of thinking?
The human spirit, he teaches, is subject to you. You have self control over its exercise and usage.
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Now here Paul teaches that it is not a matter of not using the human mind. But it is a matter of using the mind which is in the soul, along WITH ... the regenerated human spirit.
He teaches that to speak in tongues can be so mysterious that only the human spirit is being exercised but the human mind is unfruitful.
"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful."
We must remember all parts make up the total healthy human being - spirit and soul and body. So Paul's solution is to INCLUDE the mind in worship, even in speaking in a mysterious tongue.
"What then? I will pray with the [human] spirit, and I will pray also with the mind." (v.15a) [/b]
The Apostle Paul is very concerned about speaking which builds up the church. And if there is no mental understanding of something too mystical and mysterious, the congregation cannot be built up as it should.
"Otherwise if you bless with the [human] spirit, how shall he who fills the place of the unlearned in tongues say Amen at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
For you give thanks well, but the other is not built up.
I thank God, I speak in tongues more than all of you.
But in the church I would rather speak five words with my mind, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue." (vs.16-19)
Paul teaches the Christians to come together to speak and proclaim using the regenerated human spirit and the mind set on the spirit. This will cause the Christians to build up one another.
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Do you believe my motive is "unbelievably evil"?
The word of God says that the heart of man is desperately wicked. He tells us that only He knows the heart of man and the depths of it.
You're a man. So this passage would not exclude you or me. That is what I believe.
"The heart is deceitful above all things And it is incurable; Who can know it?"(Jeremiah 17:9)
Now that is not the ONLY thing the bible says.
But it among the things that it says.
Your heart is deceitful about all things. Mine too.
Here are a few other translations of Jeremiah 17:9
King James Version
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Darby Bible Translation
The heart is deceitful above all things, and incurable; who can know it?
World English Bible
The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?
Young's Literal Translation
Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable -- who doth know it?
So we need the Savior Christ as the Great Physician. He knows our hearts. But He also looks beyond out faults and sees our NEED.
@sonship saidDo you really believe my motive in debating and discussing things with you on a debate and discussion forum is "unbelievably evil"?
@FMF
Do you believe my motive is "unbelievably evil"?
The word of God says that the heart of man is desperately wicked. He tells us that only He knows the heart of man and the depths of it.
You're a man. So this passage would not exclude you or me. That is what I believe.
[b]"The heart is deceitful above all things And it is incurable; Who c ...[text shortened]... as the Great Physician. He knows our hearts. But He also looks beyond out faults and sees our NEED.
@sonship saidIf your "heart is deceitful about all things", is it "deceitful" when you post material written by Witness Lee?
"The heart is deceitful above all things And it is incurable; Who can know it?"(Jeremiah 17:9)
Now that is not the ONLY thing the bible says.
But it among the things that it says.
Your heart is deceitful about all things. Mine too.
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Betrand Russell, a world famous atheist, once said something I find true to an extent. And it agrees with Jeremiah 17:9 about the heart of man being in bad shape morally.
Betrand Russell said - There are two tragedies in life. The first is to fail to obtain the desire of your heart. The second is to obtain it.
I have not quoted because that is how I remember it.
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@FMF
I'll say it one more time. My comment a long time ago about you doing something I accused of being unbelievably evil had an entirely different backround.
I ignore your effort to bring it forward and stick it down in the middle of this discussion. I gave you something on the heart being desperately wicked. That's is all I care to write on it.