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-Removed-Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 36)
"Whether you've accept or rejected the person and work of Jesus Christ is known only to God. If you haven't already begun to ponder the absolute truths revealed by the Holy Spirit through John [the chosen human writer] on the Isle of Patmos in Revelation 20: 11-15 I'd urge you to consider doing so in private soon. Thanks for the opportunity of this exchange. Be back to this forum Monday next. -Bob"
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Whether you understand and accept the Word of God's revelation of the absolute truth concerning The Lake of Fire doesn't have squat to do with your own or anyone else's eternal destiny. The pivotal issue < in God's Perfect Plan is simply who has chosen to say "Yes" vs. who has chosen to say "No" to God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life by faith alone in Christ alone. Back on Monday as promised.
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-Removed-"Whether you understand and accept the Word of God's revelation of the absolute truth concerning The Lake of Fire doesn't have squat to do with your own or anyone else's eternal destiny. The pivotal issue < in God's Perfect Plan is simply who has chosen to say "Yes" vs. who has chosen to say "No" to God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life by faith alone in Christ alone."
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Sovereign God Himself created the these two options italicized above. If you'd like to suggest a third option regarding "belief" or non-belief in "hell" please address your suggestion directly to Him. "I'm not 'Rejecting the person or work of Jesus Christ' I'm rejecting your horrible beliefs about Jesus Christ." divegeester, please clarify my "horrible beliefs about Jesus Christ.". Thanks.
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Originally posted by divegeester Thread 164395 (Page 3)
"I am not certain that God exists but I hope he does. I am not an absolutist and should there be an afterlife and I'm shown to be wrong about my belief in the nature of God I would not be entirely surprised.
I also completely accept that despite the wonder of nature, the universe, human beings there is no actual empricial evidence that a God of any nature actually exists. However I observe this and I perceive intelligent design.
I'm generally a bit of a pessimist at work and I'm certainly a rationalist when it comes to commercial decisions. I find myself becoming impatient with those of a more, how shall I put it, eclectic commercial perspective. So I am surprised that I cling to my faith. Or perhaps my faith clings to me."
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"I am not certain that God exists but I hope he does." divegeester, have you since changed your mind?
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Maybe it's me, but this stuff you post is way too made up for me to accept as scripturally based.
Then put it aside.
Put it aside.
Go for what gives you more a sense of Christ's presence and more of what causes God's face to seem to shine on your inner being.
Put the things I wrote about the Revelation's nations around the New Jerusalem being healed by the leaves of the tree of life aside for some other day.
I am not sure that you are decided that it is more than a hope, and that God does indeed live - the living God.
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I am honest about it - what makes you think I'm not?
Well, you wrote that you had doubts that God existed. I took your writing at face value. So did Grampy.
Not serious questions
Well, do you have some doubts about His existence that you would call less than "serious" ?
Or am I meddling too much now?
It has absolutely no impact on me whatsoever (other than being astonished that you and others believe it)
The "it" I assume is eternal punishment.
Yea, some of us do believe the Scripture there on that.
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The trinity is a huge issue for me because I believe in one God
So it is Tritheism which is a huge issue to you and not a proper presentation of the one God being a trinity.
Your beef is with three Gods.
Your doctrinal beef is with Tritheism.
and that all we need from that one god is found in Jesus Christ.
A proper presentation of the Three-one God of course teaches that this God is found in Jesus Christ.
All the fulness of the Godhead is found in Him, not one third.
You want to call many "trinitarians" tritheists.
As I suspected, you have a huge strawman argument you like to knock down here.
Trinitarians believe that there is more to god found in the father and the Holy ghost. That concept is, I believe, rooted in paganism. But more positively, I believe the scriptures right through the Bible, support the notion of a single entity. Hear oh Israel, the Lord you god is one.
Do you believe - "We [Father and Son] will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)?
Do you believe - " ... that they also may be in Us" [Father and Son] (John 17:21) ?
I do. But I also believe there is no way for me to detect any difference in my being between Father and Son and Holy Spirit.
He is just one Spirit, one God, one Lord in my inner being.
You can call me a Trinitarian if you wish. But you should get off our backs. We reserve the right to believe John 14 and 17 with Deuteronomy 6:4.
Do you think you're impressing us Trinitarians by referring again and again to Deuteronomy 6:4 ? Some of us want to trust God who has said both Deuternomy 6:4 and John 14:23; 17:21.
We love the Triune God.
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-Removed-Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 36)
"Satan Freed, Doomed: "7. When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the [c]seashore. 9 And they came up on the [d]broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the [e]saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [f]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Judgment at the Throne of God: "11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose [g]presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and [h]books were opened; and another [I ]book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the [j]books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if [k]anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20: 7-15)
"Footnotes: a.Revelation 20:1 Lit upon; b.Revelation 20:4 Lit the; Revelation 20:8 Lit sea; d.Revelation 20:9 Lit breadth of the earth; e.Revelation 20:9 Or holy ones; f.Revelation 20:10 I.e. burning sulphur; g.Revelation 20:11 Lit face; h.Revelation 20:12 Or scrolls; i.Revelation 20:12 Or scroll; j.Revelation 20:12 Or scrolls; k.Revelation 20:15 Lit anyone was." New American Standard Bible (NASB)
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^ God's Words, not mine. Weep not for those who have chosen to accept God's Grace Gift of a personal relationship in time and eternity but for those family members and friends who have rejected it in favor of going it alone, depending upon their own good works."
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Originally posted by divegeester
#nothing in there mentions "burning in an eternal hell"
#second death is not eternal life in a furnace
#not everything in the Bible and especially Revelation, is literal
#complete abdication of personal moral responsibility, noted"
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Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"100 versions of "No" while living tone deaf in a cloud of denial doesn't change a thing. There is no way to alleviate personal anxiety and angst about eternity nor any fall soft or fail safe in rejecting the person and work of Jesus Christ. Choice is yours."
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Originally posted by divegeester
"You seem to be equating my rejection of your belief in eternal hell with rejecting Christ?"
The Lake of Fire as revealed in God's Word is unchanged by any human being's acceptance or rejection of God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life. You have no cause for concern if you've accepted His grace gift as have I. There are a few members of my family who have died and two who are still alive who never professed faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. I prayed for the "few members of my family who have died" while they were alive and continue to pray for the "two who are still alive".
Neither God's unfailing love nor my concern can alter the primacy of my family members' volition and the same applies to you and yours. I'm now at peace because I've placed the matter in God's hands as we're instructed to do in 1Peter 5:7 "Casting all your anxiety upon Him, because He cares for you." By the way, "Casting" is "body slam" [as in wrestling] in the Koine Greek.