Religion excludes women

@pb1022 said
I don’t have those verses and citations memorized, Ghosty. I like to read them for myself in the KJV

Now you have read them, what is your opinion?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
What about 1 Tim. 2:9–15? Sexist?

'A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserve ...[text shortened]... hrough the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.'

Bump for the peanut butter guy.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Bump for the peanut butter guy.

Have a little patience Mr. Never Vapid. You’re being Vapid.

@pb1022 said
Have a little patience Mr. Never Vapid. You’re being Vapid.

The last 2 times you've said you'd come back to something, you haven't. I don't even remember now what those two things were, so I guess it is a valid tactic of avoidance.

But it's okay. I appreciate the difficultly of being out-argued.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I'm not sure there is any middle ground here. Either the Bible is divinely inspired or it isn't. If it is, then the sexist views expressed therein can not be so easily distanced from God. The same problem arises when we read passages on slavery etc.

No, I disagree.

No matter HOW much a writer is "inspired by God", he still has free will. This would lead to some leeway between what was written and the "divine will of God". And yes, I realize that what I just said could be construed as "heresy" by the mostly male audience here. Too bad.

@suzianne said
This would lead to some leeway between what was written and the "divine will of God".

Has there ever been an edition of the Bible published that differentiates - perhaps by font, or text colour, or through notation - between what is "divinely inspired" and what is not?

@suzianne said
No, I disagree.

No matter HOW much a writer is "inspired by God", he still has free will. This would lead to some leeway between what was written and the "divine will of God". And yes, I realize that what I just said could be construed as "heresy" by the mostly male audience here. Too bad.

What about words attributed directly to God, that come across as sexist? Has God allowed His own words to be changed by the free will of the human writers?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
What about words attributed directly to God, that come across as sexist? Has God allowed His own words to be changed by the free will of the human writers?

I was brought up to believe a raft of “givens” about God, one being that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired and complete word of god to mankind. I am currently agnostic on this assertion.

Another was that the universe, the earth in particular and mankind specifically, was only 6,000 years old. I cannot accept this, not because it is impossible (god can do what he wants) but because the overwhelming in-your-face evidence does not in anyway support this. Except possibly for the timeline of evidence of large civilisations, which is indeed about 6,000 years as I understand it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The last 2 times you've said you'd come back to something, you haven't. I don't even remember now what those two things were, so I guess it is a valid tactic of avoidance.

But it's okay. I appreciate the difficultly of being out-argued.

That’s not true. I came back to you about the two female bears mauling 42 young adults who were threatening one of God’s prophets (and I don’t recall being out-argued either 😉)

@pb1022 said
That’s not true. I came back to you about the two female bears mauling 42 young adults who were threatening one of God’s prophets (and I don’t recall being out-argued either 😉)

Yes, that's true. You did come back about the bears. But there were 2 further occasions you said you would come back. (In one you said you would be longer than 24 hours. I think you said 48 hours. That was a week ago).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yes, that's true. You did come back about the bears. But there were 2 further occasions you said you would come back. (In one you said you would be longer than 24 hours. I think you said 48 hours. That was a week ago).

I recall one other occasion but also can’t remember what the topic was - pretty sure it was something from the Old Testament, like a harsh punishment.

I’ll think of what it was and get back to you in 48 hours 😉

@pb1022 said
I recall one other occasion but also can’t remember what the topic was - pretty sure it was something from the Old Testament, like a harsh punishment.

I’ll think of what it was and get back to you in 48 hours 😉

I think it's probably best, going forward, not to commit yourself to answer something at a later date. I don't think you naturally excel in that area.

Sonship does that a lot and it always smacks of a dodge. He once asked for my best 3 examples of biblical contradictions. He struggled with the first one, said he would pray on it and then promptly disappeared from civilization.

(6 months later he again asked for my best 3 examples of biblical contradictions).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think it's probably best, going forward, not to commit yourself to answer something at a later date. I don't think you naturally excel in that area.

Sonship does that a lot and it always smacks of a dodge. He once asked for my best 3 examples of biblical contradictions. He struggled with the first one, said he would pray on it and then promptly disappeared from civilization.

(6 months later he again asked for my best 3 examples of biblical contradictions).

I’m honestly trying to recall what that harsh punishment in the Old Testament was that you objected to. Pretty sure it was in Leviticus (maybe my least favorite book in the Holy Bible.)

I will think of it eventually and post it here.

I think that’s the only thing, other than the Apostle Paul’s alleged sexism, that I’ve been asked about and haven’t responded to. (And if suzianne, who’s obviously a female, has no problem with Paul then neither do I.)

I’d be interested to know those three greatest contradictions, but want to clear up these two other things first.

@fmf said
Has there ever been an edition of the Bible published that differentiates - perhaps by font, or text colour, or through notation - between what is "divinely inspired" and what is not?

No.

Let's keep in mind here what exactly "inspiration" is.

When a songwriter says he was "inspired" by one song to write another, does that mean the two songs are exactly the same?

My point here is that no matter how "inspired by God" writers of the Bible were, did all of them, faithfully, every time, recreate precisely what the will of God was?

The content of our Bibles is based on what the Council of Nicaea (all men, mind you, all church elders) decided was "include-able" and it was they who, inspired or not, decided what stayed in and what would be left out. They were basically editors, yet who can edit the Word of God? Was Jesus himself on the Council? I don't think he was.

@pb1022 said
I’m honestly trying to recall what that harsh punishment in the Old Testament was that you objected to. Pretty sure it was in Leviticus (maybe my least favorite book in the Holy Bible.)

I will think of it eventually and post it here.

I think that’s the only thing, other than the Apostle Paul’s alleged sexism, that I’ve been asked about and haven’t responded to. (And if s ...[text shortened]... sted to know those three greatest contradictions, but want to clear up these two other things first.

Well, you know, being a female, I cannot help but think that Paul's opinion on the "place" of women was not exactly "representative" of the will of God.

As of 2010, all 110 dioceses of the Episcopal Church in the United States have ordained at least one woman as priests. In 2006, the General Convention elected Katharine Jefferts Schori as Presiding Bishop. She was the first woman to become a primate in the Anglican Communion. The current presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church is Michael Bruce Curry, the first African-American bishop to serve in that position. What was Paul's opinion on black people in the church?