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How can God transform a created being into an eternal being?
He can certainly transform a created being who had a beginning in time into one who has eternal life. Otherwise, we would not have a Gospel at all.
God said, " I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
In light of that how would you understand this?
"And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one even as We are one" (John 17:22)
And how would you think about us being called unto the eternal glory of our Lord Jesus Christ?
"But the God of all grace, He who has called you into His eternal glory in Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a little while, will HImself perfect, establish, strengthen and ground you." (1 Pet. 5:10)
And one more. How would you think about the glory of God being in the church and in Christ Jesus forever?
"To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen." (Ephesians 3:21)
08 Mar 22
@sonship saidYour position is a nonsense. You want to offer Jesus as the example of man becoming deified and burry your head in the sand when it's pointed out Jesus was already deified. You simultaneously claim Jesus never gave up his divinity and yet somehow became deified after his resurrection. Your position is illogical and is a really poor argument to justify your own deification, something you have already been told by other Christians is not scriptural and is nothing short of blasphemy.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You're welcomed to have another opinion on it.
I feel comfortable with Christ uplifting into divinity man, that which was a part of God's creation which He took on. He brought God into man in one step and brought man into God in another.
You're welcomed to disagree.
08 Mar 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIt's Crowbar Theology™.
Your position is a nonsense. You want to offer Jesus as the example of man becoming deified and burry your head in the sand when it's pointed out Jesus was already deified. You simultaneously claim Jesus never gave up his divinity and yet somehow became deified after his resurrection. Your position is illogical and is a really poor argument to justify your own deifica ...[text shortened]... you have already been told by other Christians is not scriptural and is nothing short of blasphemy.
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A bump for someone to offer an explanation.
On the mount of transfiguration Jesus was suddenly glorified with supernatural splendor only briefly for the witnessing of three of His closest disciples. Then His glory was concealed again. He commanded them NOT to mention the incident before He rose from the dead.
Why do you think that is?
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"And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is raised from the dead." (Matt. 17:9)
Why did Jesus command the disciples, Peter, James, and John NOT to tell anyone of what they had seen of His glorification "until the Son of man is raised from the dead?"
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Your position is a nonsense.
Not at all. But it is a not an easy matter to grasp.
You want to offer Jesus as the example of man becoming deified and burry your head in the sand when it's pointed out Jesus was already deified.
The tension is that it seems the Bible is saying that His deity is incomplete.
But since The Word was with God and the Word was God we believe Jesus was the perfect man and the complete God.
Yet "And the Word BECAME flesh" must mean a kind of process.
If He was already flesh from eternity there would be no need for the Word to
BECOME flesh. This is incarnation - God coming to cloth Himself in humanity, in
flesh, in man. And without dispute man is the topmost creation of God.
God created man.
We are also given another became in His resurrection.
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit"
If Christ was from eternity a life giving Spirit then there was no need for Him to BECOME such. This too indicates another step in a process.
The two great BECAMES in the New Testament (John 1:14, 1 Cor. 15:45) indicate that the perfect God-man, the incarnation of Triune God went through a process.
A process moves from initiation to completion.
A process moves from inception to culmination.
We are not willing to erase or delete John 1:14 and Cor. 15:45 from the New Testament because of fear that some may misunderstand us to be saying Christ's Deity was incomplete.
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This is brief. And I still have a question posed to anhone.
WHY did Jesus command His disciples NOT to speak of His transfiguration into
supernatural splendor and radiance until He should rise from the dead?
You simultaneously claim Jesus never gave up his divinity and yet somehow became deified after his resurrection.
No, Christ never gave up His divinity.
But it is Philppians that says He did lay aside ("emptied Himself" ) of His splendor and expression of Divine glory to become a man, a slave, and an obedient executed Savior.
" Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, Who existing in the form of God did not consider being equal to God a treasure to be grasped.
But emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, becomming in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient een unto death, and that the death of a cross.
Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name. That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:5-11)
We can see from this passage that though He on earth was the complete God and the perfect man, He did "empty" Himself of something related to His glorious expression.
In resurrection and exaltation God brought that created part, the flesh, that MAN that He became as the second man and the last Adam back to the eternal throne of glory.
So I say that the Lord who was the complete God and the perfect man nevertheless in resurrection deified humanity as the Head of a "new race" as you will.
All His brothers were born in His resurrection in the same way that all the brothers of Adam were born in Adam's creation.
Fom the viewpoint of God transcendent over time ALL the brothers of the Firstborn were born when Jesus resurrected bringing created man into deification.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." (1 Pet. 1:3)
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Your position is illogical and is a really poor argument to justify your own deification, something you have already been told by other Christians is not scriptural and is nothing short of blasphemy.
You've said that before.
And I say again likewise, I would much rather have to answer to God for what I
have taught here than for your teaching of atheism.
Your obession is an insult to God because it denies Him totally and outright.
I don't blaspheme by looking into how Jesus could be the Firstborn among many brothers who are all to be conformed to Him (Rom. 8:28).
In your next post tell me why Jesus commanded His three disciples not to speak of His transfiguration until He should rise from the dead. Wouldn't it have been to His advantage to convince He was Son of God by them declaring they saw the divine Shekinah glory radiating from His flesh?
Why did this testimony have to wait until He was risen from the dead ?
08 Mar 22
@sonship saidNo, you believing yourself deified is an insult to God and have had been called out for blasphemy by genuine Christians.
Your obession is an insult to God because it denies Him totally and outright.
I don't blaspheme by looking into how Jesus could be the Firstborn among many brothers who are all to be conformed to Him (Rom. 8:28).
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08 Mar 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAnd then there's you, whose avocation seems to be telling someone else they have the wrong idea.
65 pages in and still sonship stands utterly alone in believing in man's deification having failed to convince anybody that his cultist beliefs have a basis in scripture.
This has been a bad thread for sonship.
Tut, tut. Ain't no servante gonna hide that.
08 Mar 22
@kevin-eleven saidI have no idea what you are whittling on about.
And then there's you, whose avocation seems to be telling someone else they have the wrong idea.
Tut, tut. Ain't no servante gonna hide that.
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08 Mar 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThank goodness he was not called to be an administrator.
65 pages in and still sonship stands utterly alone in believing in man's deification having failed to convince anybody that his cultist beliefs have a basis in scripture.
This has been a bad thread for sonship.
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I still cannot get anyone to come forward to explain why they think Jesus commanded Peter, James and John to tell no one of His transfiguration until He should be resurrected.
Do you assume that I know ?
Are you afraid of the "professor" giving you a failing grade.
C'mon Bible believing readers. What do you think?
Temporarily He seemed to "unzip" HImself and the divine splendor of God's Shikinah glory radiated out. Then it went back inside and He commanded the witnesses to say nothing about it until He be raised from the dead.
Why this restriction?
Don't assume that I have the infallible answer.
I have a view, perhaps.
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Ghost of a Chance sneers -
This has been a bad thread for sonship.
Oh, the horrors! Oh the pity of it all!
The sheer boo-hoo-edness of it all.
This has been a tremendous thread for me.
But I still would like to hear from someone why Jesus wanted the disciples to WITHHOLD the vision of His glorification UNTIL He rose from the dead.
That would make this great thread for me even better.
09 Mar 22
@sonship saidThis has been a truly dreadful thread for you where nobody has agreed with your deification nonsense and genuine Christians have directly accused you of blasphemy.
This has been a tremendous thread for me.
But I still would like to hear from someone why Jesus wanted the disciples to WITHHOLD the vision of His glorification UNTIL He rose from the dead.
That would make this great thread for me even better.