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When I think about God being "Holy" I believe it means He is the only one of his kind, separate and distinct from all other beings that were created. There is God, and then there is everything else.
I agree completely.
Now there are other things in the bible set aside or dedicated to God which are
described as holy.
Ie.
the holy angels,
the holy mountain,
the holy commandment,
the marriage bed is holy
These are things which in view of their being set aside and consecrated to God - are holy. Even the saints sety aside for God, by definition are holy.
My point with "perfecting holiness in the fear of God" is not of this sense, the objective sense. Otherwise there would be no need for the already "holy" saints to "perfect holiness".
So holiness in this sense is the subjective holy nature of God spreading, filling, permeating the soul. This needs a price to be paid for in denying the old manner of life.
Once again:
There is the objective holiness in view of OBJECTIVE POSITION.
Then there is in addition the SUBJECTIVE infusion of God's nature of holiness to be
"perfected". That is made holy in DISPOSITION.
This holiness of subjective sanctification is even needed in order to even see the Lord. Hebrews 2:13
English Standard Version
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
Berean Study Bible
Pursue peace with everyone, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.
We are "exhorted" to be holy, i.e. separated from the course of this world.
That is correct. And that is to be more than just positionally set aside.
That is to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit having more and more sway over the mind, emtion, and will.
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I find your inference that to be holy as God is holy, meaning deification,
It is included in the process of dewification. That is what I say.
to be an imperfect characterization of what the scriptures teach. To be exhorted to "be holy as God is holy" doesn't mean be holy "like" God is Holy because it will never happen.
It is to have God dispensed into the human being for a union, a mingling.
This started with the JOINING of the human spirit with the Holy Spirit to be one united and mingled spirit.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)
That is an "ORGANIC" union of the JOINING of the Third Person of the Triune God with the third part of the tripartite man - his human spirit.
Since there is a organic uniting in life the two spirits - the Holy Spirit and the human spirit jointly witness within that we have a family relationship with God in life.
He is now the ABBA - dear and intimate "Daddy" with whom we are joined.
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God." (Rom. 8:16)
06 Mar 22
@fmf saidI think you're confused because, regardless of sonship's "argumentation", you don't know the first thing about God except by purely mechanical means. You see words in a book about God, but you deny their inspiration. Without belief yours is merely an academic exercise void of "supernatural causality".
Perhaps you just have not been following or comprehending the nature of sonship's "argumentation" on this deification-of-humans topic. I am not "confused" about it at all. I have lost count of how many times his monologue has hinged on '...well, X could CONCEIVABLY true because of Y and Z' when someone has offered him a less far-fetched interpretation of Y and Z.
The exchange between sonship and I with regards to what the scriptures mean by what they say goes well beyond your capacity to understand because those things are "spiritually discerned", the mechanism of which you lack as evidenced by your own confession.
I, believe it or not, can identify with your concerns about sonship's posting habits and style, some of which I have addressed to sonship, but I won't with you.
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God is Holy because He is the only one of His kind in existence, but we are called to be holy "as" God is holy in the sense of being separated from the course of this world.
And He is also the only one with the divine uncreated life which is holy.
Yet in Christ that life becomes the life of those into whom He dispenses Himself.
Paul was a pioneer in receiving this dispensing of God's holy and unique life embodied in Christ and made a "life giving SPirit" And he was filled to the point of saying it was no longer he that lived but Christ the lived within him.
"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I [who live, but it is Christ [/i[ who lives within me. (See Gal. 2:20)
He lived a life grafted into Christ.
He lived a life grafted into the life of God.
And as a representative of the normal Christian life, his life was hidden with CHrist
in God.
"For you [also] have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will bemanifested with Him in glory." (Col. 2:3,4)
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josephw,
Since the apostles were LVING this new life of the Triune God within them, the angel told them to go to the temple and speak all the words of this life.
Acts 5:20
King James Bible
Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.
New King James Version
“Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.”
The dispensed life includes the holy nature of God.
@josephw saidAh yes, the trusty "You don't get it" debating point. Next, you will be telling me that I can't possibly understand your dogma because you-being-able-to-understand it has caused a supernatural transformation of your cognition.
I think you're confused because, regardless of sonship's "argumentation", you don't know the first thing about God except by purely mechanical means. You see words in a book about God, but you deny their inspiration. Without belief yours is merely an academic exercise void of "supernatural causality".
06 Mar 22
@sonship saidYou're not hearing what I'm saying.
I find your inference that to be holy as God is holy, meaning deification,
It is included in the process of dewification. That is what I say.
to be an imperfect characterization of what the scriptures teach. To be exhorted to "be holy as God is holy" doesn't mean be holy "like" God is Holy because it will never happen.
It is ...[text shortened]... "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God." (Rom. 8:16) [/b]
"Deification" is not a biblical term. Nor do the scriptures teach it.
You have not satisfactorily equated your assertion that man is deified with the verses you cite as scriptural evidence.
I'll say it again, God is Holy because He is the only being in existence like Himself.
God is eternal. Man will forever and always be finite.
How can God transform a created being into an eternal being?
God said, " I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,.."
Billy Graham once said, "we are never more like the devil than we try to touch the glory of God".
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Me:
"This is an attribute of God that He intends, with the cooperation of believer's faith and obedience, to perfect in themselves."
Josephw,
Again, the attribute of being holy as God is holy, with regards to our pilgrimage on earth, means being separated from the course of this world.
But as we the believers are pilgrams, we are PARTAKERS of the divine nature.
We are not just admireres or worshippers or spectators from afar off. But the Christians are in the event ot partaking of the nature of God which is divine and in which is the nature of God's holiness.
2 Peter 1:4 NIV -
4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
Recovery Version
" . . . He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust."
PARTAKERS are PARTICIPANTS.
Participants in WHAT? Participants in the divine nature.
So we should SEE and believe and stand upon the fact and exercise our faith in the precious promises. Though they are exceedinly great we ought not to stagger in unbelief.
Why should we fight to deny and contradict the promise ?
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You're not hearing what I'm saying.
"Deification" is not a biblical term. Nor do the scriptures teach it.
I think you are ignoring me when I say we believe in "trinity" when it is not strictly speaking a biblical term.
Saying "deification" is not a biblical term is not adaquate to deny its truth anymore that denying God is a Trinity.
You have not satisfactorily equated your assertion that man is deified with the verses you cite as scriptural evidence.
I think I have and will do so more.
Evidence is not persuassion.
The life of God is holy.
Fallen man is "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18)
Though Jesus Christ God has not only been embodied in a man, But He has made the life of that God-man available to by our life.
This is mainly seen in the Gospel of JOhn.
He is "the bread of life".
He is the living bread.
He is the water life.
He is the Holy breath (Holy Spirit) breathed into the disciples.
He is the way and the truth and the life.
He is "the resurrection and the life".
And as He lived by His Father, if we internalize Him (eat Him) we will live also because of Him.
"As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)
He said He IS the life - the WAY , the truth, and the LIFE (for us to live).
"Jesus ssaid to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
You know we must be born again.
We were born ONCE naturally already.
WE are born against when the life of the Triune God is "born" within us.
It is His being dispensed into us. Yet it is our second birth - a birth belonging to us.
This proves that it is our new life a life of God living in us and a life of our becoming partakers of the divine nature.
Now our task is to learn to LIVE a new way. We are not use to doing so.
So we must practice and perfect living this way.
That is also to "perfect holiness in the fear of God."
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I'll say it again, God is Holy because He is the only being in existence like Himself.
But the Bible concludes with the climax of time in which the Triune God in Christ MARRIES a counterpart. That is an entity that MATCHES Him.
The New Jerusalem is that corporate entity of the sons of God which form an eternal Wife and counterpart to the divinized humanity of the God-man Jesus.
Why can you not see that yhe culmination of all God's salvation work is a counterpart like Eve was a counterpart to Adam.
Eve was taken out of Adam as part of Adam (his rib) and BUILDED up into a woman. This was a window into the eternal purpose of God.
OUT Of Himself He would also take of His life and BUILD a woman city as a bride, as a wife.
The church must realize her status as this living part of God taken OUT of Him and builded into His wife. This is seen in Ephesians chapter 5.
"For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh.
This mystery is great, but I speak with regard to Christ and the church." (Eph. 5:31,32)
It is time Christians graduate and see that Ephesians 5 is not just something you talk about in weddings. It is a window into the eternal purpose of God - the church which is the subject of this book and the climax of the Bible in Revelation 21 and 22 as New Jerusalem.
The one became TWO and then God brings the TWO together to be one.
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Man will forever and always be finite.
How can God transform a created being into an eternal being?
God said, " I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,.."
Billy Graham once said, "we are never more like the devil than we try to touch the glory of God".
I told you before many times, the non-communicable attributes of God remain His.
One of those being that He ALWAYS WAS.
But to say those who are granted eternal life will not be eternal is wrong of course.
They are not eternal as to the past.
They are eternal as to from the point of receiving Christ in them as the eternal life.
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Let me ask you this Josephw.
Paul said he and the apostles labored " to present every man full grown in Christ."
Life goes from immature to mature to full grown.
What life is it in man that Paul desires would be the Christains life of maturity - ie, of beinbg "full grown in Christ"?
That would be Christ's life which has been dispensed into them.
And Christ is the embodiment of God and the resurrected and glorified deified
man in glory.
Ghost says I teach Christ gave up His divinity.
Far from it.
But when He incarnated He brought this divninity into man.
In resurrection He brought this humanity back to the throne of God - deified that which He put on. And in such a state became the "Firstborn among many brothers." .
This is a matter of growth. So Paul sought to present every man full grown in Christ.
"[Christ] Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ." ( Col. 1:28)
Incidently, Paul did so not by his own natural power but through the operation of the divine power imparted into him to do such a work for God.
"For which also I labor, struggling according to His operation which operates in me in power." (v.29)
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06 Mar 22
The process of the Triune God to dispense Himself into man in His communicable attributes to deify them making them fit to be His Wife, Bride, counterpart in the New Jerusalem.
Uncreated life ----> Creation ----> Inarnation -----> Death -----> Resurrection -----> Ascension -----> Life Impartation.
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06 Mar 22
@sonship saidHere's your quotation:
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
From anywhere in this thread or in any other -
Where did I write that Jesus relinquished His divinity.
Quotation please.
"He died and rose a redemptive act and then became the divine..."
How can He become divine if He was already divine and hadn't lost His divinity?!
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06 Mar 22
1 edit
@josephw saidIt isn't so much that he's not hearing you, he simply would rather you say something he agreed with.
You're not hearing what I'm saying.
"Deification" is not a biblical term. Nor do the scriptures teach it.
Hence him spamming the thread with 6 consecutive posts.