Questions for Deification Deniers

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Here's your quotation:

"He died and rose a redemptive act and then became the divine..."

How can He become divine if He was already divine and hadn't lost His divinity?!

Chapter and verse. I don't recognize that quote.

@josephw said
Chapter and verse. I don't recognize that quote.

Sorry, the quote was from sonship, not scripture. (He denied he had said it).

@sonship said
The process of the Triune God to dispense Himself into man in His communicable attributes to deify them making them fit to be His Wife, Bride, counterpart in the New Jerusalem.

Uncreated life ----> Creation ----> Inarnation -----> Death -----> Resurrection -----> Ascension -----> Life Impartation.

Sonship, I don't disagree with most of what you said in the previous 6 posts.

I think though that you stretch to far the idea of deification.

Your use of the term "trinity" as an analogous example to infer that "deification" is in the same way derived from the scriptures you cited, and it doesn't work.

The verses that prove that God is three in one are direct and speak plainly of a "trinity", but not so the verses you cite to give credence to the inference of "deification".

You have erred in that you start with a premise, and use the scriptures to support that idea. Premises are derived from scriptural support first.

If "deification" was taught by the scriptures, then that word would be not just hinted at but plainly stated. Your sprawling posts notwithstanding.

I read your posts. But honestly, you wrested the idea of deification right out of the verses you cite. I suspect that the idea isn't your own, but that you got it from someone else, and you took the bait hook, line and sinker.

You're a good man sonship. Don't be discouraged.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Sorry, the quote was from sonship, not scripture. (He denied he had said it).

Ah yes. I lost that thought. I still don't recognize the verse.

@josephw

You have erred in that you start with a premise, and use the scriptures to support that idea. Premises are derived from scriptural support first.

If "deification" was taught by the scriptures, then that word would be not just hinted at but plainly stated. Your sprawling posts notwithstanding.

Josephw,

For about a thousand YEARS or more the passages on Justification by Faith were plainly right there in the New Testament.

I can hear someone saying to Luther -

"Martin Luther, if we were to be justified by faith it would be clearly taught in the Bible. If it was not necessary to be justified by being on the right side of the Pope and the Catholic Church, why, there would be no need to torture out and twist out these forced verses to concoct this new strange teaching."

@josephw said
Ah yes. I lost that thought. I still don't recognize the verse.

Nobody does.

You see how sonship asked for the quote then runs for the hills when I provide it?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Nobody does.

You see how sonship asked for the quote then runs for the hills when I provide it?

He’s done that to me probably 6 times over the years.

@sonship said
For about a thousand YEARS or more the passages on Justification by Faith were plainly right there in the New Testament.

I can hear someone saying to Luther -

"Martin Luther, if we were to be justified by faith it would be clearly taught in the Bible. If it was not necessary to be justified by being on the right side of the Pope and the Catholic Churc ...[text shortened]... no need to torture out and twist out these forced verses to concoct this new strange teaching."

Justification by faith was not "tortured out" of the scriptures by Martin Luther. That teaching was suppressed by a religious sect in the same way the Pharisees suppressed the Old Testament scriptures.

People still don't get it.

The teaching about "deification" hasn't been suppressed. It was "concocted" in the mind of whoever it was you listened to. Just like any other heretical teaching. And there are many.

So now I have to feel as though I'm a suppressor. God forbid.

@josephw

Justification by faith was not "tortured out" of the scriptures by Martin Luther.

It is easy for us to say that on this side of the Reformation.

That teaching was suppressed by a religious sect in the same way the Pharisees suppressed the Old Testament scriptures.

Before it was suppressed though it was not seen.
The veil was thick because of the stength of religious tradition.

People still don't get it.

This is true.
And they are often people who love the Lord very much.
Maybe sometimes they love the Lord more than you or I.

As God is very merciful and desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth. Coming to the full knowledge of the truth, or even a fuller knowledge, may not immediately be the lot of those who He graciously saves in spite of this.

I have every confidence that some brothers who have doubts about the process of deification will eventually see this. One day, you'll look at me and I'll look ayt you, and will both cay "We thought that was a deep descussion. That wassn't deep at ALL. Look at us now."

He is able to do far above all that we ask or even think. (Eph. 3:20)

Some just do not feel comfortable now giving this marvelous salvation beyond what we could ask or think a name. It is "so great a salvation" . And it is being saved by the eternally interdeding one "to the uttermost".

The teaching about "deification" hasn't been suppressed. It was "concocted" in the mind of whoever it was you listened to. Just like any other heretical teaching. And there are many.

Then it was concocted in the mind of the Lord Jesus in John 17 where He petitions His Father in His mighty prayer before He went to the cross.

"That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me.

And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one.

I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me.

Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may bejhold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:21-24)

So now I have to feel as though I'm a suppressor. God forbid.

I think we all who belong to the Son, to some degree do not fathom the extensiveness of full salvation. To be with Him where He is, I do not take to mean we be on the bleechers or positioned with a good view from some cloud.

I believe that we are made God in life and nature but not in His unique Godhead.

You must remember that this great house of God He is building, this temple and tabernacle city has Christ as PART of it.

He is the foundation stone (Isaiah 28:16)
He is also the cornerstone (Matt,21:42; Acts 4:11)
He is also the foundation (1 Cor. 3:10,11,)
He is the topstone (Zech. 4:7)

We are the living stones (1 Pet. 4,5) which He has produced.

He is also the Builder and actually the building material also.
He has more honor than the house. Yet He is God who builds all things. (Heb 3:3,4)
He is over this dwelling place of God in man yet a part of it also as the cornerstone, foundation stone, topstone, foundation, and building material.


So you see this house of God is an extension of the Son of God in resurrection and glorification. He was the temple who was destroyed yet in three days was raised up again. And He enlarged to be the Father's house of many abodes. He prepared a place for all His redeemed to be the many abodes of that consummate house of God.

In John Pester's words -

Jesus' work as a High Preist, which is covered in great detail in Hebrews 4:14 through 10:39, involves the impartation of His heavenly life as grace into us so that the divine life in our spirit can progresively sanctify us and fully qualify us to dwell in God and to be His corporate, deified house in this age and in the coming age (5:12-14; 6:1, 19; 8:10, 10:16-17, 39). His high priestly work is a work of ministering His humanized divinity and His divinized humanity into us so that we can be built up corporately as the house of God with God and the redeened believers mutually indwelling each other in CHrist. . . . His work as a High Priest is focused on making man God in life and nature in order to produce a corporate, deified dwelling place for God and redeened humanity. This is the chief point of the speaking of God in the Son in Hebres (8:1-2)."

Affirmation and Critique, A Journal For Christian Thought, Vol. XV, No. 2 , Fall 2010, pg 55 [my bolding]

@sonship said
I think we all who belong to the Son, to some degree do not fathom the extensiveness of full salvation.

Do you feel there are any Christians here in this community who may "fathom" it to a greater degree than you do?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Here's your quotation:

"He died and rose a redemptive act and then became the divine..."

How can He become divine if He was already divine and hadn't lost His divinity?!

Bump for sonship.

You asked:

From anywhere in this thread or in any other -
Where did I write that Jesus relinquished His divinity.

Quotation please.



Why are you ignoring my reply where I provided the quote you requested?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Why are you ignoring my reply where I provided the quote you requested?

This note (seen for the first time 3/7/ 7:45 am est) informs me that you have provided a quote which I should examine. Now I will go and find and examine your your reply.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Thankyou Ghost.

Here's your quotation:

"He died and rose a redemptive act and then became the divine..."

How can He become divine if He was already divine and hadn't lost His divinity?!

Would you please indicate exactly where you cut and pasted that quotation from so that I may examine what comes after the ellipses.

And scoring debate points is not the crucial thing to me.
Rather accurately conveying what I believe, is my priority.
Should there be need for correction on my part or clarification, I will do so.

Where is the entire paragraph?

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Thankyou Ghost.

Here's your quotation:

"He died and rose a redemptive act and then became the divine..."

How can He become divine if He was already divine and hadn't lost His divinity?!

Would you please indicate exactly where you cut and pasted that quotation from so that I may examine what comes after the ellipses.
...[text shortened]... correction on my part or clarification, I will do so.

Where is the entire paragraph?

This thread sonship. 9th post down on page 61. - "In order to make it man's life He became a man. He died and rose a redemptyive act and then became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit to GIVE God's life to man."

Again, if Jesus died and then 'became' divine, this has to imply that Jesus had somehow lost his divinity. Otherwise, how could he become something he already was?

Jesus didn't 'become' divine. He 'was' divine. - This is why your deification parallel to Jesus doesn't hold water. His default position was divine. Yours is not.