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@sonship
On page 48 of this thread you also wrote: "Yes. The man Jesus was God incarnated as a man. And the man, what God became, what God put on (so to speak) was then deified in resurrection."
This clearly shows you believe, in God becoming man, He lost his divinity. Otherwise, how could he possibly be deified in resurrection as you claim?
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This thread sonship. 9th post down on page 61. - "In order to make it man's life He became a man. He died and rose a redemptyive act and then became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit to GIVE God's life to man."
Now Ghost quotes the entire sentence.
Rather than clipping it as "He died and rose a redemptive act and then became divine . . ." he does my sentence fair justice by completing the thought - [my bolding]
"He died and rose a redemptive [edit] act and then became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit to GIVE God's life to man."
Now that we have the entire sentence, what is Ghost's objection to clarify HIS understanding of the meaning I intended. Fair enough, now that you have provided the whole sentence.
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Again, if Jesus died and then 'became' divine, this has to imply that Jesus had somehow lost his divinity. Otherwise, how could he become something he already was?
As the Divine Son of God indeed from eternity Christ was already divine.
1.) My sentence does not say "Jesus died and then became divine" .
That would imply that Christ was not divine from eternity past.
Of course John 1:1 says that the Word was with God and the Word was God. It would be ridiculous for me to assert the Word that was with God and was God was not divine. If He was not then God is not divine.
2.) What my sentence does say is that He died and rose and became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit.
The Spirit as the Third Person of the Triune God was already there in Genesis 1:2 - " . . . and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the deep."
So indeed the Third Person of the Trinity the Spirit is forever from eternity past into eternity future "the eternal Spirit" (Hebrews 9:14)
So has Ghost caught me in a contradiction of the Bible?
It is the Bible that says "the last Adam BECAME . . . a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
For me to write that the resurrected man Jesus "became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit is to say what essentially the Aposlte Paul wrote. Compare now the two sentences:
Me: "He died and rose a redemptive [edit] act and then became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit to GIVE God's life to man."
Paul: " . . . the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45b)
The eternal Spirit of God contained the divinity of the Christ, the Son of God from eternity. The eternal Spirit took on the ingredient of the humanity of the man Jesus when He was resurrected and "became a life giving Spirit".
Before resurrection - the Spirit of God consists of the divinity of God.
After resurrection - the Spirit of God was compounded with the humanity of the
man Jesus.
In this sense the divine Son of God (as to His humanity) did not become divine in resurrection ,BUT He "became a life giving Spirit". In other words the man whom the Son of God incarnated to become was now compounded with His humanity into the eternal Spirit. And this for the express purpose that the divinized humanity of Jesus might be GIVEN to those who receive the Spirit.
In John 1:14 " . . . the Word became flesh" must mean He became what He was not before.
LIkewise in 1 Cor. 15:45 " . . . the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" must mean that Christ became something which He was not before, ie. the incarnated MAN Jesus who was NOW [edited] resurrected and glorified.
I know at this point those who do not love the word that much will glaze over in mind and eyes saying "Oh this now is waffle."
No apologies to them.
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Me writing " He died and rose a redemptive [edit] act and then became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit to GIVE God's life to man." is ECHOING what the New Testament says - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" .
Rather than inventing something new, I am repeating the Scrtiptures basically.
Jesus didn't 'become' divine. He 'was' divine. - This is why your deification parallel to Jesus doesn't hold water. His default position was divine. Yours is not.
The Bible is not always easy to understand.
It is clear that this life giving Spirit that the last Adam became "was not yet BECAUSE . . . Jesus had not not YET been glorified."
"He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet beel glorified." (John 7:38,39)
The italicized word given in the King James is supplied by the editors and is not part of the original Greek. Therefore, literally it is not that the Spirit was not yet GIVEN but that the Spirit was not YET.
When the last Adam became the life giving Spirit, the Third Person eternal of the Trinity had compounded into it the resurrected and glorified man - Jesus. The eternal Spirit has compounded into Him the man that God incarnated had become (the Word became flesh - John 1:14)
Now this resurrected Man, this Last Adam, this glorified and deified humanity of Jesus was added to the eternal Spirit that God may give life to His redeemed people. That is give Jesus the God-man as divine life with His glorified humanity to the saved.
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07 Mar 22
@sonship saidYou have stated clearly sonship that Jesus was "deified in resurrection."
Me writing " He died and rose a redemptive [edit] act and then became the divine, eternal life giving Spirit to GIVE God's life to man." is ECHOING what the New Testament says - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" .
Rather than inventing something new, I am repeating the Scrtiptures basically.
[quote]
Jesus didn't 'become' divine. He 'was' di ...[text shortened]... emed people. That is give Jesus the God-man as divine life with His glorified humanity to the saved.
Why are you dancing around that in a disingenuous manner? I will ask you clearly, How could He be deified in resurrection when he had never given up His divinity? Are you really not able to see the contradiction?!
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07 Mar 22
1 edit
@josephw saidIt really does. (And self-delusion).
Deification. Screams of egocentrism.
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07 Mar 22
Good grief! I understand regeneration, transformation, imputation and imitation, but I don't understand deification. To my ears it gives a discordant sound.
Don't panic. Be patient. Put it on the back burner for now.
Its ok.
I your brother in Christ explain to you why I have no problem to employ the word deification.
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07 Mar 22
2 edits
You have stated clearly sonship that Jesus was "deified in resurrection."
Yes, it is not easy for me to explain as much of the Bible is not.
However, the Divine Person took on something of His creation - man, the flesh.
He was God in a man.
He was even God-man.
Yet it is the New Testament which has Him uplift, glorify, and enthrone that part of Him which He took on in incarnation and wear it back FOREVER on the eternal throne.
Why don't you understand this?
Man is an item of God's creation (Gen. 1:26) And God clothed Himself in man - "the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us".
The Bible is not always easy to understand.
I uphold that this was God incarnate, the Son of God, the Son of Man.
The Bible also says that in resurrection He was BORN as the Firstborn Son of God.
He uplifted this created humanity into deification.
This created part which He had taken on and clothed Himself in needed to be
glorified and worn by Him for eternity back upon His throne.
In His uplifting, sanctifying, glorifying this human part He took on He is the model, the standard prototype, the Leader, the Joshua leading many sons into glory - His many brothers.
It is as this glorified humanity that the saved FOLLOW Him.
It is as this uplifted deified humanity He is the Firstborn among many brothers.
Before His resurrection He is only the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
After the uplifting and deification of that human part He took on He is in addition to this [b]"the FIRSTBORN Son"{/b]. The implication is strongly that He is the FIRST among many others to FOLLOW.
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Now I have a question for all of your serious Bible readers.
Do not let anyone ELSE answer for you - believer in Jesus.
I would like your answer.
On coming down from the Mount of Transfiguration why did Jesus say this:
"And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is raised from the dead." (Matt. 17:9)
Why did Jesus command the disciples, Peter, James, and John NOT to tell anyone of what they had seen of His glorification "until the Son of man is raised from the dead?"
I would like to hear from Josephw sooner rather than latter?
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07 Mar 22
1 edit
@sonship
This was a bad typo. The word meant was NOW not not.
LIkewise in 1 Cor. 15:45 " . . . the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" must mean that Christ became something which He was not before, ie. the incarnated MAN Jesus who was NOW [edited] resurrected and glorified.
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07 Mar 22
@sonship saidAgain, if Jesus was deified in resurrection, you must believe He lost divine status in order to get it back.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You have stated clearly sonship that Jesus was "deified in resurrection."
Yes, it is not easy for me to explain as much of the Bible is not.
However, the Divine Person took on something of His creation - man, the flesh.
He was God in a man.
He was even God-man.
Yet it is the New Testament which has Him uplift, glorify, ...[text shortened]... e FIRSTBORN Son"{/b]. The implication is strongly that He is the FIRST among many others to FOLLOW.
For someone that is already deified logically can not 'become' deified.
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07 Mar 22
1 edit
@sonship
If you are already a vegetarian and do not relinquish your vegetarianism, can you become a vegetarian?
Answers on a postcard.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You're welcomed to have another opinion on it.
I feel comfortable with Christ uplifting into divinity man, that which was a part of God's creation which He took on. He brought God into man in one step and brought man into God in another.
You're welcomed to disagree.