@fmf saidI'm saying we know what we do when we design things, we know our mindsets, but with the complexity we see in life and the universe itself, it is far above us. One of the many things we see are coded commands, are coded commands something you automatically go to when the word mindlessness comes up?
No, I know what they mean. But I am still asking you to answer my specific question. Are you seeking to superimpose human notions of intents, goals, plans, desires, and aspirations onto some kind of anthropomorphized version of a creator entity and the mechanics of life?
@kellyjay saidYou use the word "mindlessness" to refer to processes and mechanics you do not understand and you, therefore, attribute these to some kind of being that has human-like characteristics ~ perhaps this is because you are a human and a consumer of pseudo-science.
I'm saying we know what we do when we design things, we know our mindsets, but with the complexity we see in life and the universe itself, it is far above us. One of the many things we see are coded commands, are coded commands something you automatically go to when the word mindlessness comes up?
@fmf saidIt's pretty simple, coded instructions that take care of complex tasks that, if not done correctly, will cause degradation and death; is this the work of a designer or a product of mindless processes? You can go on and on about my thought process and never once address the question; your assessment of me is meaningless to the discussion.
You use the word "mindlessness" to refer to processes and mechanics you do not understand and you, therefore, attribute these to some kind of being that has human-like characteristics ~ perhaps this is because you are a human and a consumer of pseudo-science.
@kellyjay saidThe universe is wonderful and perplexing and still mostly a mystery to we humans. You choose to anthropomorphize its nature and refer to a "designer", and give this entity human-like attributes because you are a religionist.
It's pretty simple, coded instructions that take care of complex tasks that, if not done correctly, will cause degradation and death; is this the work of a designer or a product of mindless processes?
@kellyjay saidTo my agnostic atheist way of thinking, and being open-minded, I think the universe and human consciousness represent the best evidence believers in a creator entity have got.
You can go on and on about my thought process and never once address the question; your assessment of me is meaningless to the discussion.
But if "the mechanics of the universe" are indeed the result of such a creator entity, then it is our understanding of the nature of the universe - that is to say, science - that gives us a steadily growing knowledge of the nature of that creator entity [or "God", if you will].
I don't believe that theology tells us anything about the nature of the universe and the nature of its creator [assuming there is one]. I think theology is about psychology and anthropology.
@fmf saidStill, design or mindless isn't addressed; you only want to talk about me because I'm a religionist? Why is that? Because you are a ___, do I need to come up with a word to describe you and your opinions and why you have them? It isn't enough to have thoughts; there must be some cause that makes us have them? You must be really into things like, you only say that because your a man, or woman, white, black, American, Canadian, German, English, rich or poor. You put some effort into this; we are not independent thinkers; there must be a reason why we think the way we do; I wonder if that is caused by design even in your world?
The universe is wonderful and perplexing and still mostly a mystery to we humans. You choose to anthropomorphize its nature and refer to a "designer", and give this entity human-like attributes because you are a religionist.
@fmf saidScience isn't the nature of the universe; it is the study of it; we can make a lot of assumptions in science correctly or incorrectly; questioning those assumptions is science. The nature of the universe is reality, and we have a difficult time grasping that.
To my agnostic atheist way of thinking, and being open-minded, I think the universe and human consciousness represent the best evidence believers in a creator entity have got.
But if "the mechanics of the universe" are indeed the result of such a creator entity, then it is our understanding of the nature of the universe - that is to say, science - that gives us a steadily gro ...[text shortened]... ature of its creator [assuming there is one]. I think theology is about psychology and anthropology.
@fmf saidWhen you contemplate reality the universe around us, do you think it is the product of indifferent mindless processes, or is there a design in place?
To my agnostic atheist way of thinking, and being open-minded, I think the universe and human consciousness represent the best evidence believers in a creator entity have got.
But if "the mechanics of the universe" are indeed the result of such a creator entity, then it is our understanding of the nature of the universe - that is to say, science - that gives us a steadily gro ...[text shortened]... ature of its creator [assuming there is one]. I think theology is about psychology and anthropology.
@kellyjay saidIf the universe is some kind of result of a creator entity, I think it is science that is exploring its nature. I don't think theology [the product of various people claiming their God figures have communicated with them] has anything to tell us about the nature of "creation", if that is indeed what it is, apart from providing examples of conjecture and speculation over questions we do not know the answers to.
Science isn't the nature of the universe; it is the study of it; we can make a lot of assumptions in science correctly or incorrectly; questioning those assumptions is science. The nature of the universe is reality, and we have a difficult time grasping that.
@kellyjay saidI don't know. I am an agnostic atheist. Do you read any of my posts? Neither of us know what the origins of the universe and of life are. We can but speculate. I don't mind admitting that I don't know. And it's OK for you to assert that you are certain and you DO know, but you do that because you are a religionist.
When you contemplate reality the universe around us, do you think it is the product of indifferent mindless processes, or is there a design in place?
@kellyjay saidUnlike you, I am not going to use the words "mindless" and "mindlessness" to refer to things that I do not understand and to then use this labelling to claim those processes can only be explained by one of the "revealed" religions - which use the anthropomorphized notion of a "designer".
Still, design or mindless isn't addressed; you only want to talk about me because I'm a religionist?
@kellyjay saidI talk to you because you are a religionist, yes. You do not need to come up with a word to describe me and my opinions and why I have them because you already know that I am an agnostic atheist a.k.a. implicit atheist [as opposed to an explicit one].
Still, design or mindless isn't addressed; you only want to talk about me because I'm a religionist? Why is that? Because you are a ___, do I need to come up with a word to describe you and your opinions and why you have them?
@kellyjay saidAnd that's why it's not "mindless".
Mindlessness hasn't any goals, plans, desires, no successes, failures, no targets to hit, no desire to improve, no desire to stay in a steady-state, no asperations for improvement, no wondering what to do next, no record of what was done in the past for referral, no plan for what to do in the future.
Has God ever left any of his plans "half-baked"?
@kellyjay saidI think you explaining the mysteries of the universe by referring to "a designer" cannot be separated from your religious ideology about supernatural causality.
It isn't enough to have thoughts; there must be some cause that makes us have them?
That is the cause of your thoughts and what you assert about the universe, as far as I can make out.
I think the "cause" of my thoughts is that I am not seeking to take intellectual refuge in the certainties of ideology.
Like everybody else - including you - I do not know how the universe came about.