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Could "perish" in John 3:16 simply mean physically expire, die, become deceased?
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life."
Considering some criticisms here on the forum I have recently come to this verse seriously asking myself this question. Why couldn't Jesus have simply meant here "would not perish" means "would not DIE" ?
[My interpretations of the NT are not infallible.]
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@vivify saidI have to agree after thinking about it.
Many Christians have died, including the Apostles. So I doubt it meant a physical death.
In fact Jesus foretold of Peter's death practically.
"Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he [Peter] would glorify God." (20:19a)
But why could "not perish" (3:16) mean "not REMAIN dead" ?
I just thought of that right now.
I have not considered an answer yet myself.
@sonship saidThose Witness Lee books you got from Satan, when God was sharing brains, really was not such a good idea. It really messed you up. You should have gone in the line for brains, like most normal people.
I have to agree after thinking about it.
In fact Jesus foretold of Peter's death practically.
"Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he [Peter] would glorify God." (20:19a)
But why could "not perish" (3:16) mean "not REMAIN dead" ?
I just thought of that right now.
I have not considered an answer yet myself.
@sonship saidBack in my church days, I was taught "perish" in the Biblical sense means go to hell. In other words, a "spiritual" death.
I have to agree after thinking about it.
In fact Jesus foretold of Peter's death practically.
"Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he [Peter] would glorify God." (20:19a)
But why could "not perish" (3:16) mean "not REMAIN dead" ?
I just thought of that right now.
I have not considered an answer yet myself.
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@vivify saidThe question of the OP is could i mean something else.
Back in my church days, I was taught "perish" in the Biblical sense means go to hell. In other words, a "spiritual" death.
You have to think outside the traditional box sometimes and ask yourself if you are just bringing an assumption to the words.
If He meant simply DIE then how could He tell disciples that they might die?
How could He then tell Peter how Peter would die.
Rumor went out among the twelve that John would not die.
But John himself corrects the misinformation of that rumor (John 21:23)
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Then in 3:16 could "not perish" have meant not to REMAIN dead forever? Maybe? In 11:25 Jesus said:
"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes into Me, even if he should die, shall live."
If that was where He stopped we might conclude that to perish means to die and never live again. But that is not all He said there. He adds something:
"And every one who loves and believes into Me shall by no means doe forever. Do you believe this." (v.26)
This has been a puzzling verse to me because not everyone who believes in Christ did not physically die. So 11:25 kind of has TWO parts.
Men will believe in Christ and live again though they die.
Every man who believes in Christ who is living will not die
This does have some problems to me because history shows believers in Christ have died in their belief.
Just sticking with the Gospel of John for the moment. To "perish" must be related to being judged by God after death when one is raised again to be judged.
"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all in the TOMBS will hear His voice and they will come forth: those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28,29)
Just taking the Gospel of John, to PERISH must be to participate in a resurrection which involves JUDGMENT.
And to not perish must mean to participate in a resurrection unto life.
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@vivify saidMaybe it means exactly the opposite of "eternal life."
Maybe it means locked in a freezer to prevent spoilage.
As in "eternal death." The old saying about being "born again" (more correctly, born from above) touches on this: Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
If you think of it in biblical terms, what was the very first lie? The evil one told Eve, "you shall not really die." Every religion in the world essentially attempts to answer the same ingrained human question: "What happens AFTER this life ends." In other words, they are all built upon the supposition "you shall not really die."
I think if you take the whole of the Scriptures, the teaching is really simple. Those who depart this life without the provision of salvation provided by the Creator will one day stand in judgment and then be destroyed. Forever. Gone. Those who obtain the provision of salvation provided by the Creator will stand in judgment, then be granted never-ending life in the presence of the Creator Himself.
If I may quote a passage without seeming to "pick and choose" please allow:
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death..." --Death. We've all earned it because we've all sinned. That's our paycheck for having the opportunity to go through this world.
"...but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Gifts are not earned. They are simply accepted, or, sadly, rejected.
What did God tell Adam would happen if he sinned in the Garden of Eden?
He told him he would DIE. He didn't say, "if you disobey you will die, then be resurrected from your physical death to be tormented in flames for eternity."
ETERNAL torment of a living being seems kind of unjust for a being that may have lived only some decades on earth. We're talking BILLIONS of years without end!
Take note of what the Lake of Fire in Revelation symbolizes. Here are the only places in which it is mentioned in the entirety of the Bible:
First appearance: Revelation 19:20
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
Second appearance:Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Third appearance: Revelation 20:14-15 (shows the Lake of Fire symbolizes the 2nd death):
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Fourth and final appearance: Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, SHALL HAVE THEIR PART in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
I believe the teaching is clear. Simply put, we all physically die. Then we face judgement. Those who rejected God's gift will give an accounting of why they didn't see the need to accept. Their accounting will be judged as lacking and they will be punished for every evil before being destroyed forever (they will have Their Part in the Lake of Fire). Those who are under the umbrella of God's salvation will be forgiven, and rewarded for the good deeds they have done in this life, as well as granted everlasting life in the presence of the Sovereign Creator of the Universe.
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@sonship
TYPO Corrections:
"And every one who [LIVES] and believes into Me shall by no means [die] forever. Do you believe this." (v.26)
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@Liljo
I would like to perhaps ask you some questions latter Lilijo to see how you would think about a few things.
Thanks for a pretty thorough explanation of your thoughts so far.
Will you take a few questions?
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@sonship saidI'd be honored, and will do my very best to answer. I'm just a student, just like you, my friend.
@Liljo
I would like to perhaps ask you some questions latter Lilijo to see how you would think about a few things.
Thanks for a pretty thorough explanation of your thoughts so far.
Will you take a few questions?
Shalom!
@liljo saidA Jew. Sonship will not be happy with your answers. He is a OSAS, ie, those who profess they believe in Jesus Christ, get eternal life immediately and they can never die, even though they may live a life of sin.
I'd be honored, and will do my very best to answer. I'm just a student, just like you, my friend.
Shalom!
@sonship saidMy opinion.
Suzziane would you express your opinion on the OP?
The Hebrew word apollymi is listed in Strong's as G622. It is translated 33 times in the KJV as "perish", but 26 times as "destroy", as in "be destroyed".
In John 3:16, my opinion is that it means "eternal destruction". Liljo's post talks about this. Obviously it means more than just "die", since many have died since then, including apostles, and it seems they would be some of the first in line for the Kingdom of God.
This fully aligns with my belief that there is no eternal torture after death. After Judgement, souls not deemed worthy are simply snuffed out in the Lake of Fire. AKA "eternal destruction", with no possibility of parole, as it were.
In this, at least, Liljo and I seem to agree. I've presented most of what he covers in his post before as reasoning behind my belief.