Could "perish" simply mean die?

@divegeester said
Are you trying to find the balls to call me a son of perdition?

True to the OP I am exploring what happens as one puts together other evidences from Scripture (starting with John) to get an idea of what "perish" would mean. (John 3:16)

Two more clues in that exploration, I feel, are the fact that none "perished" except Judas "the son of perdition". As far as he is concerned the evidence from the lips of Jesus is that it would have been good for him to have not been born. (See Matt. 26:24; comp John 17:12).

Then I ask: "Well if no one perished except sonship (me) how would that sound to me?"

It is a legitimate way for me to figure out what "shall not perish but have eternal life" means in John 3:16.

The overall picture of the word "perish" is not at all positive as far as I can see. It looks like something to be avoided by believing in Christ as Christ teaches.

@sonship said
@Suzianne

Demons, fallen angels and Satan's lieutenants are all not human.

Their place is in the lake of fire.

Now if for a human being (not a demon) it is said the same destination could be had, what basis could I have to assume the result might be different?

That is not a rhetorical question but a honest question.

You told me that t ...[text shortened]... different result for "anyone" else who is sent to said lake of fire?

I'm all ears.

Because humans will "perish" (i.e. be destroyed completely) in the lake of fire. Not so the demons, and Satan's lieutenants, who are not human.

@suzianne said
Because humans will "perish" (i.e. be destroyed completely) in the lake of fire. Not so the demons, and Satan's lieutenants, who are not human.

I see what you mean.
I have no further comment right now.

@Kevin-Eleven

Jesus offers Streams of Living Water and you still want to beat someone at legalistic verbiage wrangling?

It is true that Christ offers to flow in us as rivers (or streams) of living water.

it is true that I wrangle sometimes too much, especially with those who years ago clearly indicated they will not receive what I would like to say.

Sometime tell me more about the Streams of Living Water. I would love to hear about that.

@sonship said
@Kevin-Eleven

Jesus offers Streams of Living Water and you still want to beat someone at legalistic verbiage wrangling?

It is true that Christ offers to flow in us as rivers (or streams) of living water.

it is true that I wrangle sometimes too much, especially with those who years ago clearly indicated they will not receive what I would like to say.

Sometime tell me more about the Streams of Living Water. I would love to hear about that.

The only thing I can contribute is that the "streams of living water" passage (John 7:38) occurs during the Jewish harvest festival of Sukkot, which I think also commemorates the Jews' 40 years of wandering in the desert (and perhaps their sustenance by God during that time?), so it should probably be read in that context, e.g., as an offer to people who feel they are "living in the desert" or living in exile (maybe in modern times we might add feeling alienated).

@divegeester said
Are you trying to find the balls to call me a son of perdition?

More like The Carnival Barker of Perdition. 😉

@kevin-eleven said
The only thing I can contribute is that the "streams of living water" passage (John 7:38) occurs during the Jewish harvest festival of Sukkot, which I think also commemorates the Jews' 40 years of wandering in the desert (and perhaps their sustenance by God during that time?), so it should probably be read in that context, e.g., as an offer to people who feel they are "living in the desert" or living in exile (maybe in modern times we might add feeling alienated).

Thanks! I may have a bit more to speak to about that.

In that passage it is not imo all that easy to know specifically WHICH scripture in the Old Testament He meant when He said "as the Scripture said".

It is more like an accumulation of places which somewhat speak to the matter involving the thirst quenching of water. Lots of good places in the Jewish Bible as candidates for His reference "as the Scripture said".

That is out of his belly (or innermost being RcV) shall flow rivers of living water.

@Suzianne

Because humans will "perish" (i.e. be destroyed completely) in the lake of fire. Not so the demons, and Satan's lieutenants, who are not human.

Suzianne, I said no comment for the moment. I would have one now if you don't mind.

If "perish" in the gospels means annhilation (as nothingness) then probably a phrase like "son of Gehenna" means something like "a son of annhilation" or "son of destruction (as into oblivion)" or "son of (into) NOTHINGNESS" if you will.

If this is the case what would Jesus mean that some would be TWICE as much so as some others?

For example:
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you go about the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of Gehenna as yourselves." (Matt. 23:15)

Do you recommend I think of this proselyte as made "TWICE as nothing" or "TWICE as much in oblivion" as the scribe or Pharisee who hypocritically produced one?

Are there some sinners punished with oblivion and others punished with TWICE as much oblivion?