Could "perish" simply mean die?

@liljo said
Don't give up, Raj. Patience and endurance, my friend.
Many people, millions upon millions have been duped with a false gospel never taught by Yeshua or the apostles.

Many think "getting saved" is their "ticket to escape the flames of hellfire." In fact, that was their primary objective in seeking God to begin with. It reveals that what they really love is themselves (I'm ...[text shortened]... s itself in an ardent desire to serve Him, which can only be done in accordance to His commandments.

Thanks. You are breath of fresh air around here. Of the 12 or so Christian posters on this forum it is only two of us who speak of the importance of keeping the commandments of Christ. Most Christians [in their teachings] pay Christ's commandments lip service and this is fatal practice.

Liljo

You wrote above:

"...but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Gifts are not earned. They are simply accepted, or, sadly, rejected.

This kind of faithful speaking will get you on the bad side of Rajk999.

Of course for years I have spoken of the GIFT rather than the LOAN of eternal life. Rajk999 untruthfully in his twisted way says I encourage disobedience to the commands of Christ.

There is no truth to the accusation.
When I ask him to produce the proof by quotations, he NEVER does.
Every single discussion here where we show up together ends up in him making the same accusations.

But I wish to sort out a few questions to you.

@Rajk999

Thanks. You are breath of fresh air around here.

Its a breath of fresh air for Liljo to quote:

"The GIFT of God is eternal life" ?

Breath some more fresh air then right out of the New Testament:

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

@Rajk999

Of the 12 or so Christian posters on this forum it is only two of us who speak of the importance of keeping the commandments of Christ.

No you aren't.

Your "breath of fresh air" has been told you many times. But YOU think it is verses the importance of the obedience to the commandments of Christ.

That is YOUR false dichotomy.

For some more of the fresh air.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works that no one should boast,

For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before hand in order that we would walk in them." (Eph. 2:8-10)

Fresh Air indeed - the TRUTH.

@suzianne said

The Hebrew word apollymi is listed in Strong's as G622. It is translated 33 times in the KJV as "perish", but 26 times as "destroy", as in "be destroyed".

In John 3:16, my opinion is that it means "eternal destruction". Liljo's post talks about this. Obviously it means more than just "die", since many have died since then, including apostles, and it seems they ...[text shortened]... m to agree. I've presented most of what he covers in his post before as reasoning behind my belief.

I liked this post, and agree with much if not all of it.

The Subject at John 3:16 is eternal life. Two possibilities, to live (be granted eternal life) or not be granted it (perish).

@sonship said


Just taking the Gospel of John, to PERISH must be to participate in a resurrection which involves JUDGMENT.

And to not perish must mean to participate in a resurrection unto life.

I think that your logic is twisted to try and suggest that to perish means to live or even be part of a resurrection.

If the alternative to eternal life is to perish (john 3:16) then resurrections don't come into this.

@liljo said
We don't "obey the commandments to be saved." We obey them BECAUSE we are "saved."

Another way of saying this is 'Christians are not "saved" unless they obey the commandments. sonship, the poster who started this thread, has asserted that he is irrevocably "saved" and talks very little about "obeying the commandments".

If one accepts the claim that 'People obey them BECAUSE they are saved', then it means people who aren't obeying the commandments are not "saved" regardless of whether they think scripture entitles them to declare that they are, right?

@rajk999 said
Most Christians [in their teachings] pay Christ's commandments lip service and this is fatal practice.

Agreed.

In many cases "Christian" is for a tick box on a census, not a way of life. This is Satan's world (at the moment) so if as a would be Christian you find it easy to go along with and being part of this world you, must be doing something wrong.

@FMF

I cant fault that logic and would agree.

@sonship said
Could "perish" in John 3:16 simply mean physically expire, die, become deceased?

Who knows! But when your version of the multi-headed Jesus, God, Spirit god who tortures non Christians alive for eternity, then any other interpretation is an improvement.

If you are saying that you want move along the incomprehensible morally abhorrent spectrum from eternal torture to death penalty then I would heartily encourage you.

@medullah said
@FMF

I cant fault that logic and would agree.

Given that you feel that FMF’s post encapsulates “perfect logic” in that only people who are “obeying God’s commandments” are saved, then how do you personally know you are indeed, saved?

@medullah said
Agreed.

In many cases "Christian" is for a tick box on a census, not a way of life. This is Satan's world (at the moment) so if as a would be Christian you find it easy to go along with and being part of this world you, must be doing something wrong.

Ops, Sorry, I forgot you. So there are 3 Christians who promote the keeping of the commandments of Christ,

@medullah said
I liked this post, and agree with much if not all of it.

The Subject at John 3:16 is eternal life. Two possibilities, to live (be granted eternal life) or not be granted it (perish).

Correct. In order to include some statements by Christ, there is an element of torment as part of the punishment for some evil people, These are cast into the lake of fire where they are tormented but eventually perish [annihilated]. However, to claim that all unbelievers are tormented for eternity is complete nonsense.. The basis for this false doctrine is another false doctrine, that of the immortal soul [a doctrine with no biblical support]

@sonship said
@Rajk999

Thanks. You are breath of fresh air around here.

Its a breath of fresh air for Liljo to quote:

"The GIFT of God is eternal life" ?

Breath some more fresh air then right out of the New Testament:

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

Eternal life is a gift of God for sure. Nobody denies that. You will find that Jesus spoke at length who it is that will receive this gift. Who receives it is important, not who knows about it. A man knowing these passages and quoting and preaching this is not necessarily among them who receives this gift of eternal life. The ones who receive this gift eternal life was stated clearly by Christ so that there can be no misunderstanding. John 10:27 and many many other places .. those who hear Christ

His sheep, hear His voice, and He gives them eternal life.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

Your "breath of fresh air" has been told you many times. But YOU think it is verses the importance of the obedience to the commandments of Christ.

That is YOUR false dichotomy.

Cherrypicking again, and promoting a part of Pauls teachings. Continue reading on a bit more in Ephesians 5 and you will see that even though you are a saved, born-again Christian, saved by the death of Christ, there is no eternal life in the Kingdom of God unless the Christian lives righteously and does good works

Paul teaches the whole story. You do not.

The whole story from Paul for the Christian Saint in Christ:
1. Belief and Faith
2. Accepting Christ
3. Baptism
4. Righteous living
5. Good works and Charity

Only then comes eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

You do not preach Pauls doctrine.