@athousandyoung saidPlanting a bomb in hotel full of civilians what would you call it, just so we can establish your criteria for a terrorist act, is it killing a civilian you like?
Was it terrorism when the IRA tried to blow up Maggie Thatcher?
[youtube Eyes of the IRA]nJJPWvHCtro[/youtube]
@athousandyoung saidDid you check out the link I gave you and did you look at the examples?
wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
If not, don’t come whining and expect me to do it for you.
@athousandyoung saidKneecapping
Specific pls when where who
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“ Kneecapping is a form of malicious wounding, often as torture, in which the victim is injured in the knee. The injury is typically inflicted by a low-velocity gunshot to the knee pit with a handgun. The term is considered a misnomer by medical professionals because only a very small minority of victims suffer damage to the kneecap. A review of eighty kneecapping victims found that only two had a fractured kneecap. Some victims have their elbows and ankles shot as well.[1]”
“ See also: Paramilitary punishment attacks in Northern Ireland
During the Troubles in Northern Ireland, paramilitaries considered themselves to be law enforcers in their own areas. They used limb punishment shootings to punish drug pushers and child molesters. If the crime was considered to be grave, the victim was also shot in the ankles and elbows, leaving them with six gunshot wounds (colloquially known as a six pack).[5] Approximately 2,500 people were victims of these punishment shootings through the duration of the conflict. Those who were attacked carried a social stigma with them.[6]”
@athousandyoung saidThat was not the issue I was addressing.
Was shooting child molesters and drug dealers in the arms and legs evidence that the IRA campaign was unjustified?
Someone asked for examples of terrorist behaviour.
Kneecapping is a way of creating fear in a community (fear-based behavioural change).
If that justifies the campaign or not, I will leave in the middle at the moment.
@athousandyoung saidSuspected child molesters, drug dealers, burglars, car thieves etc they didn’t get a trial the key word here is ‘suspected’ no trial. Do you think that’s justified in the 20th century?
Was shooting child molesters and drug dealers in the arms and legs evidence that the IRA campaign was unjustified?
You seem intent on thinking the argument hinges on who you do or don’t like, everyone has a right to a lawful trial, even the perpetrators of the holocaust got that.
@shavixmir saidI have seen no evidence by anyone that this occurred. The wikipedia article does not mention this.
That was not the issue I was addressing.
Someone asked for examples of terrorist behaviour.
Kneecapping is a way of creating fear in a community (fear-based behavioural change).
If that justifies the campaign or not, I will leave in the middle at the moment.
@shavixmir saidhttps://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
Did you check out the link I gave you and did you look at the examples?
If not, don’t come whining and expect me to do it for you.
Not everyone has the time to do your bidding.
Are you online. Really? Can you prove you’re online and actually exist? If we have to go through that with every debate it’s going to be very tiresome.
Feenan, Dermot (2002a). "Community Justice in Conflict: Paramilitary Punishment in Northern Ireland". Informal Criminal Justice. Farnham: Ashgate Publishing. pp. 41–60. ISBN 978-0-7546-2220-8.
Gallaher, Carolyn (2011). After the Peace: Loyalist Paramilitaries in Post-Accord Northern Ireland. Ithaca: Cornell University Press. ISBN 978-0-8014-6158-3.
Gormally, Sinéad (2014). "The Complexities, Contradictions and Consequences of Being 'Anti-social' in Northern Ireland". In Pickard, Sarah (ed.). Anti-Social Behaviour in Britain: Victorian and Contemporary Perspectives. Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. pp. 179–191. ISBN 978-1-137-39931-1.
Hamill, Heather (2002). "Victims of Paramilitary Punishment Attacks in Belfast". In Hoyle, Carolyn; Young, Richard (eds.). New Visions of Crime Victims. Oxford: Hart Publishing. pp. 49–69. ISBN 978-1-84113-280-8.
Hamill, Heather (2011). The Hoods: Crime and Punishment in Belfast. Princeton: Princeton University Press. ISBN 978-1-4008-3673-4.
To Serve Without Favor: Policing, Human Rights, and Accountability in Northern Ireland. Helsinki: Human Rights Watch. 1997. ISBN 978-1-56432-216-6.
Jarman, Neil (2007). "Vigilantism, Transition and Legitimacy: Informal Policing in Northern Ireland". In Pratten, David; Sen, Atreyee (eds.). Global Vigilantes: Perspectives on Justice and Violence. London: Hurst. ISBN 978-1-85065-837-5.
From an online reprint paginated 1–22.
Knox, Colin; Monaghan, Rachel (2002). Informal Justice in Divided Societies: Northern Ireland and South Africa. Basingstoke and New York: Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN 978-0-230-50363-2.
McEvoy, Kieran (2001). "Human Rights, Humanitarian Interventions and Paramilitary Activities in Northern Ireland". In Harvey, Colin J. (ed.). Human Rights, Equality and Democratic Renewal in Northern Ireland. Oxford: Hart. pp. 215–248. ISBN 978-1-84113-119-1.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/10056251/northern-ireland-kneecapping-victim-shot-four-times
@athousandyoung saidWhat they titled the article “kneecapping” by throwing a bunch of letters at the page?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
Perhaps you should google ‘obtuse’
“ The IRA made a conscious decision along with Sinn Féin to clean up the Divis Flats because of the crime and drug dealing. An IRA man was put in to call on people to band together and make the flats a hoods-free area . . . The IRA moved in and kneecapped four or five people. Then they gave a particular drug-dealing family 48 hours to get out of Belfast or be ‘stiffed’. They left. The Lower Falls became quiet. Sinn Féin got their act together and got two seats in the Lower Falls.”
The popularity of the Administrative IRA’s often cruel violence against alleged criminals in nationalist districts could sometimes pay handsome electoral dividends. The IRA’s brutal policing system was arguably, and ironically, part of a process that ended the Troubles.
All that will be of scant comfort to Maíria Cahill, who has endured 17 years of isolation and mental agony as she sought justice for one crime the IRA couldn’t or wouldn’t confront.”
An article from the Irish Times about the “Civil Administration’ squads that operated in nationalist areas during the ‘Troubles’.
From ‘The Irish Times’ July 8th 2020.
The crime committed against Maria Cahill was rape BTW
@shavixmir saidIf you don't have time to argue your position you will lose the debate.
Not everyone has the time to do your bidding.
Are you online. Really? Can you prove you’re online and actually exist? If we have to go through that with every debate it’s going to be very tiresome.
Feenan, Dermot (2002a). "Community Justice in Conflict: Paramilitary Punishment in Northern Ireland". Informal Criminal Justice. Farnham: Ashgate Publishing. pp. 41–60. ISBN ...[text shortened]...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/10056251/northern-ireland-kneecapping-victim-shot-four-times
@shavixmir saidWhat is the relevance of that list to your argument?
Not everyone has the time to do your bidding.
Are you online. Really? Can you prove you’re online and actually exist? If we have to go through that with every debate it’s going to be very tiresome.
Feenan, Dermot (2002a). "Community Justice in Conflict: Paramilitary Punishment in Northern Ireland". Informal Criminal Justice. Farnham: Ashgate Publishing. pp. 41–60. ISBN ...[text shortened]...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/10056251/northern-ireland-kneecapping-victim-shot-four-times
@kevcvs57 saidIf you bomb a pub known to be primarily frequented by soldiers, you are not targeting civilians. Some civilians may get killed, but they were not targets. It's cold blooded perhaps but every military accepts the idea of "collateral damage"; by your definition every army in every war has been "terrorists".
Why don’t you pick a definition and see if you can extract PIRA from it
If you bomb a pub you are targeting civilians by definition, if you bomb a high street you are targeting civilians by definition if you bomb a barracks you are targeting the civilian family members and workers in that barrack by definition.
The fact that PIRA and their apologists claim that they were ...[text shortened]... ivilians as part of their campaign to force the Brits to the table is disingenuous to say the least.
Is that such a hard concept to understand?
@athousandyoung saidRight so your just talking like a complete idiot now and lying when you say you haven’t been provided with evidence.
If you don't have time to argue your position you will lose the debate.
The argument is not mine to win you and No1 are trying to argue that PIRA were not a terrorist organisation. So far you haven’t provided one shred of evidence to back up your claim and chosen to ignore evidence to the contrary.
You’ve already lost the argument by default. I guess I’ll have to wait for the actual debater to get home from work or something.