@rookie54 said
i see no damage caused by the offense and/or outrage in other folks response to his actions

Well, he lost his job. And the players lost their coach. That's damage, I think.

@rookie54 said
i, too, see no damage caused by the coach's actions

What decision by the Supreme Court would you favour?

@fmf said
What decision by the Supreme Court would you favour?

i have no opinion

@fmf said
Our 1st Amendment to the US Constitution says that there shall be no establishment of a state religion.

I don't think a sports coach praying is establishing "a state religion", do you?

He also led his players in prayer...so basically a government employee acting in an official capacity encouraging a specific religious practice.

He shouldn't have done it. As for what I think should happen - first tell him to stop doing it, and only fire him if he keeps at it.

Edit: assuming his high school is a public school.

@fmf said
"Joseph A. Kennedy, a former high school football coach, was fired after he made a habit of going to the 50-yard line after his team’s games to thank God and to lead his players in prayer. On Monday, the Supreme Court heard his suit." ~ The Daily

Isn't feeling excluded from such moments simply character building?

Thoughts?

That's not the issue. The problem is that is he invited the high school players to join in the prayers. While he claims no student was forced to join the prayers, a situation was created where the students may have felt they had to.

Think of it like someone's boss asking them out on a date. There is an inherent power imbalances where the employee may feel pressure to comply. Same for those students being asked by their coach to pray.

@fmf said
"Joseph A. Kennedy, a former high school football coach, was fired after he made a habit of going to the 50-yard line after his team’s games to thank God and to lead his players in prayer. On Monday, the Supreme Court heard his suit." ~ The Daily

Isn't feeling excluded from such moments simply character building?

Thoughts?

It would probably be braver of you to pose questions about things going on in Indonesia.

@vivify said
That's not the issue. The problem is that is he invited the high school players to join in the prayers. While he claims no student was forced to join the prayers, a situation was created where the students may have felt they had to.

I don't really see there being much of a problem if the students "felt they had to" or if they felt a bit bad that they didn't.

If someone doesn't believe in God or if they don't believe in prayer or they don't want to pray at that moment, I do not see why such a big issue has to be made about it.

It's as if the people who wanted the coach fired somehow want all the teenagers to be kept in a psychological/interpersonal oxygen tent.

@vivify said
Think of it like someone's boss asking them out on a date. There is an inherent power imbalances where the employee may feel pressure to comply. Same for those students being asked by their coach to pray.

Were any students left off the team because of their religious beliefs?

@suzianne said
Do you think state institutions such as a Capitol building, or a high school, should display, in a conspicuous place, the "Ten Commandments"? This is the kind of thing the 1st Amendment prevents.[/i]

Yes. The government promoting the 10 commandments is what I see as being what the 1st amendment is about. But I don't see a football coach praying as the same as the government establishing a "state religion".

@bigdogg said
He also led his players in prayer...so basically a government employee acting in an official capacity encouraging a specific religious practice.

Wouldn't it have to be a government-endorsed school policy for it to be an "official capacity" or to be a "state religion"? Aren't feeling excluded from such moments or resisting pressure to participate/comply or learning to exercise one's conscience simply character-building and run-of-the-mill life experiences?

@fmf said

@suzianne said
Do you think state institutions such as a Capitol building, or a high school, should display, in a conspicuous place, the "Ten Commandments"? This is the kind of thing the 1st Amendment prevents.[/i]

Yes. The government promoting the 10 commandments is what I see as being what the 1st amendment is about. But I don't see a football coach praying as the same as the government establishing a "state religion".

A high school prominently displaying the "Ten Commandments" is the same as a high school football coach praying (with team members or without) in the middle of a football field at a game attended by members of the public.

State officials are promoting ONE religion. This is the "establishment" the amendment disallows.

@fmf said
Wouldn't it have to be a government-endorsed school policy for it to be an "official capacity" or to be a "state religion"? Aren't feeling excluded from such moments or resisting pressure to participate/comply or learning to exercise one's conscience simply character-building and run-of-the-mill life experiences?

No.

@fmf said
Were any students left off the team because of their religious beliefs?

That's like asking "was anyone denied a promotion for not agreeing to date the boss"?

The simple act of making the request is problematic, whether there were consequences or not.

@vivify said
That's like asking "was anyone denied a promotion for not agreeing to date the boss"?

The simple act of making the request is problematic, whether there were consequences or not.

I don't think a boss trying to have sex with one of his or her subordinates is a good analogy for people praying together.

@suzianne said
A high school prominently displaying the "Ten Commandments" is the same as a high school football coach praying (with team members or without) in the middle of a football field at a game attended by members of the public.

I don't think it is.