Why can't the coach pray on the field?

@suzianne said
State officials are promoting ONE religion. This is the "establishment" the amendment disallows.

Praying is "promoting"? Praying is "establishing a state religion"?

@fmf said
I don't think a boss trying to have sex with one of his or her subordinates is a good analogy for people praying together.

It is similar because a coach is an authority figure wielding influence that those under him may feel pressure to abide by

Religion is a serious matter that has governed human societies for eons. Wars have been waged, laws and morality have been built around religion. Framing the situation with cuddly words like "praying together" ignores the seriousness of the role religion plays in society.

If the kid was a Muslim being asked by his coach to pray to a Christian god, do you not see why this could be a problem?

If the child was raised in a conservative Christian family being asked by a Muslim coach to pray to Allah...do I need to explain what problems this can cause?

The coach should've known it was not appropriate to ask children to do such a thing.

If he didn't psychologically abuse anyone or coerce them, it seems unjust that he was fired from his job.

@fmf said
he didn't psychologically abuse anyone or coerce them

You could say the same for a boss asking subordinates on a date. It's still inappropriate, even if it was "nicely" asked.

@vivify said
If the kid was a Muslim being asked by his coach to pray to a Christian god, do you not see why this could be a problem?

No. The teenager should simply decline. Is this what happened? He forced people to pray to the Christian God who didn't want to or who weren't Christians? Is that really what happened?

@vivify said
You could say the same for a boss asking subordinates on a date. It's still inappropriate, even if it was "nicely" asked.

You are equating seeking to have sexual intercourse with someone with praying in front of people or with them?

@vivify said
Religion is a serious matter that has governed human societies for eons. Wars have been waged, laws and morality have been built around religion. Framing the situation with cuddly words like "praying together" ignores the seriousness of the role religion plays in society.

You think I am "ignoring the seriousness of the role religion plays in society" because I think a sports coach ought not to to have been sacked for praying?

@vivify said
The coach should've known it was not appropriate to ask children to do such a thing.

I think the teenage football players should just have taken it in their stride. In fact, they probably did.

@fmf said
You think I am "ignoring the seriousness of the role religion plays in society" because I think a sports coach ought not to to have been sacked for praying?

He wasn't "sacked for praying". He was fired for asking children to do so. That's a big difference. You keep using phrasing that inaccurately describes what happened. This isn't the first time you've done that on this thread, which makes it seem like you're ignoring the seriousness of religion in society.

Was firing the coach excessive? Let's first start by answering: were the coach's actions inappropriate? You seem to be arguing it wasn't, that it was no big deal. Therefore, any disciplinary action seems unreasonable to you in this situation.

If the coach's actions were inappropriate, then we now at least have a basis for justifying the school's actions.

@vivify said
He wasn't "sacked for praying". He was fired for asking children to do so. That's a big difference. You keep using phrasing that inaccurately describes what happened. This isn't the first time you've done that on this thread, which makes it seem like you're ignoring the seriousness of religion in society.

Was firing the coach excessive? Let's first start by answering ...[text shortened]... s actions were inappropriate, then we now at least have a basis for justifying the school's actions.

He wasn't "sacked for praying". He was fired for asking children to do so.

They should just say no ~ if they don't want to do it. They should be raised to take these kinds of situations in their stride.

Was firing the coach excessive? Let's first start by answering: were the coach's actions inappropriate? You seem to be arguing it wasn't, that it was no big deal. Therefore, any disciplinary action seems unreasonable to you in this situation.

Was firing the coach excessive? Yes, I think so. Were the coach's actions inappropriate? No, I don't think so. Different strokes for different folks.

@vivify said
This isn't the first time you've done that on this thread, which makes it seem like you're ignoring the seriousness of religion in society.

Yeah, religion has caused wars, genocides, terrorism, repression, and governments have established state religions and burned people at the stake... and some guy was praying on a public school playing field.

@vivify said
It is similar because a coach is an authority figure wielding influence that those under him may feel pressure to abide by

Religion is a serious matter that has governed human societies for eons. Wars have been waged, laws and morality have been built around religion. Framing the situation with cuddly words like "praying together" ignores the seriousness of the role relig ...[text shortened]... s can cause?

The coach should've known it was not appropriate to ask children to do such a thing.

So you similarly disapprove of Muslims praying publicly?

@vivify said
Religion is a serious matter that has governed human societies for eons. Wars have been waged, laws and morality have been built around religion. Framing the situation with cuddly words like "praying together" ignores the seriousness of the role religion plays in society.

Sounds “serious”.

You seem to be saying that this coach praying publicly is synonymous with starting wars?

@fmf said
Praying is "promoting"? Praying is "establishing a state religion"?

When someone in a position of authority does it while carrying out the position which he authoritatively represents, yes. A coach doing it on the field of play is doing just that -- he's officially, not just personally, endorsing one particular religion. If Joe Biden prays in church it's one man's personal business; if a president prays while addressing the US Congress, the state is endorsing a religion. No go.

@moonbus said
When someone in a position of authority does it while carrying out the position which he authoritatively represents, yes. A coach doing it on the field of play is doing just that -- he's officially, not just personally, endorsing one particular religion. If Joe Biden prays in church it's one man's personal business; if a president prays while addressing the US Congress, the state is endorsing a religion. No go.

I think a coach praying on a sports field is "one man's business" and does not involve exerting the "authority" of a "state religion", just as it is each teenager's business - "one man's business" in each case - if they pray along with him or don't.

Did "the state" take any action against the teenagers who did not participate in what is effectively alleged to have been the ritual of the "state religion"? No.

It mystifies me, somewhat, that the people who sacked the coach think they were being faithful to [1] the wishes of the writers of the constitution or [2] acting in the best interests of the community and the nation.