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Everybody can choose what they want to believe, and the only people around here who are getting abusive, telling people they are denying Christ and other such statements are the believers in the Trinity/Triune God.
Was the Word God?
If you say no, then you yourself admit to denying Christ.
That is the position you YOURSELF have taken by denying (John 1:1).
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22 Dec 21
Everybody can choose what they want to believe, and the only people around here who are getting abusive, telling people they are denying Christ and other such statements are the believers in the Trinity/Triune God.
Again, you admit to denying Christ by saying the God who the Word was was not the same God as the Word was with.
Denial of Christ is the self chosen stance you admit to taking.
Unless you wish to affirm John 1:1 -
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
22 Dec 21
@sonship saidThat is your opinion. I heard it before and responded.
@Rajk999
Everybody can choose what they want to believe, and the only people around here who are getting abusive, telling people they are denying Christ and other such statements are the believers in the Trinity/Triune God.
Was the Word God?
If you say no, then you yourself admit to denying Christ.
That is the position you YOURSELF have taken by denying (John 1:1).
You believe as you wish. I will believe as I wish.
You continue to make rules which Jesus did not make.
Maybe you should check on yourself.
23 Dec 21
@sonship saidThe thread has demonstrated that Jesus was subject to the Father prior to the creation, subject to the Father during his ministry and subject to the Father after the millennial reign. That can only be called equality by someone who does not understand basic English.
@Rajk999
So how many Gods are there in John 1:1? Is there ONE or are there more than one?
The less people communicate with false teachers like you, the better off they will be.
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I will believe as I wish.
You continue to make rules which Jesus did not make.
Maybe you should check on yourself.
Of course you will believe as you wish.
Me too.
By His mercy I have believed that that Word Who was with God was God (John 1:1).
You are slow to respond. Don't wait for an atheist to come in and vouch for you being mistreated. The "rule" there is set by the Apostle John not me.
Do you believe that the Word was a different God, such that Who the Word was with was different from Who the Word was ?
If you say John 1:1 is about two Gods then the "rule" you deny is that given us by God.
23 Dec 21
@sonship saidJohn 1
@Rajk999
So how many Gods are there in John 1:1? Is there ONE or are there more than one?
English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Hebrews 1
But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Genesis 1
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
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23 Dec 21
@KellyJay
Amen. By His mercy . . . I have come to accept and believe His word.
Those who have difficulty, imo, should go to God and ask for mercy.
"Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief."
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You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
In addition I notice this:
The One addressed as God has "partners" or as the ESV reads "companions".
Now how could this be that God has partners and that His joy is above the joy of His partners? ( ? ? ? )
Recovery Version Bible - " But of the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners? "
Because God became incarnated as one like us, men, and resurrected wearing that nature back to the throne, we who are saved become His PARTNERS.
We rejoice. We joy. But not as much as our Elder Brother. Why He is anointed with the oil of exultant joy ABOVE . . . His partners.
Hallelujah!
23 Dec 21
@sonship said“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—DEUTERONOMY 6:4.
@Rajk999
So how many Gods are there in John 1:1? Is there ONE or are there more than one?
If Jesus is also Almighty God then why not say it here? Why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned here either?
Knowing that all of the people that followed God and history proves that all of God's followers only believed in a single God, not three in one, Look it up.
So if the trinity is true, why a scripture like this? To even slightly say that is not what it says or we don't understand it is a cop out. It says what it says.......... 1 not 3.
@galveston75 saidBefore you put your argument on that verse, you should look into what it says, "one" in that context has more to do with harmony or a lack of conflict, not a singular number.
“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—DEUTERONOMY 6:4.
If Jesus is also Almighty God then why not say it here? Why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned here either?
Knowing that all of the people that followed God and history proves that all of God's followers only believed in a single God, not three in one, Look it up.
So if the trinity is true, why a ...[text shortened]... is not what it says or we don't understand it is a cop out. It says what it says.......... 1 not 3.
Look it up, this is off the web.
echad
In the Hebrew language, the word "one" found in Deuteronomy 6:4 is echad. This word refers to a "unity," not specifically a "singularity." This is the same word that refers to the husband and wife being "one flesh" in marriage (Genesis 2:24).
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If Jesus is also Almighty God then why not say it here? Why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned here either?
Knowing that all of the people that followed God and history proves that all of God's followers only believed in a single God, not three in one, Look it up.
The audience at the foot of Mt. Sanai will be held by God responsible for the light of truth they had at that time. The new testament time the revelation of God unfolded more. God and His economy is profound. And He over many centuries more and more unveiled His nature and His eternal purpose.
The book of Hebrews is much on this theme of progression of the speaking and revelation of God.
For example - "God having spoken of old in many portions and in many ways to the fathers in the prophets, has at the last of these days spoken to us in the Son, whom He appointed Heir of all things, through whom also He made the universe; . . . " (Hebrews 1:1)
The revelation did not stop with Moses repeating ("Deuteronomy" ) the stage of God's unveiling at Mt. Sinai. Now the Son has come. And God speaks to His people "in the Son" .
The profound eternal and [uncreated] Divine Person requires His eternal purpose to be progressively unfolded over a long period of time.
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So if the trinity is true, why a scripture like this? To even slightly say that is not what it says or we don't understand it is a cop out. It says what it says.......... 1 not 3.
Those people at on the banks of the Jordon river about to cross over into Canaan will be held by God responsible for the level of revelation God gave them.
You know Paul spoke of the mystery hidden from generations which is NOW . . . revealed to His apostles and prophets.
"That by revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I have written previously in brief, By which, in reading it, you can perceive my understanding in the
mystery of Christ, Which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in spirit, . . . " (Eph. 3:2-5)
23 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidSo what exactly does that mean? You see it seems that just about any words you can come with explains it. No it doesn't because no matter how hard one manipulates a new set of words it still doesn't explain anything.
God the Father and God the Son are equal in identity, not equal in role.
But..... this is a great explanation for a married couple. Actually it's a great one. But the glaring fault with it is that it applies to (( 2 )) separate humans. Both may have the same goals in life. Have the same rules in raising their children, etc, etc. And maybe they have a grown child that lives with them that has some say so in the everyday affairs in this household. So now we have (( 3 )) separate humans maybe all with an equal share of running this house.
So is this a trinity?