The Wisdom of Witness Lee

Walter Martin tried in the 70s what Ghost is trying now. [my bolding]

Bible Answer Man: “That is what they are driving at. And that came directly from Witness Lee’s pamphlet, The Practical Expression of the Church in 1970 and it is on page 43. In case there are local church people listening, your leader has contradicted the Scriptures and taught a heresy, a grave heresy. And that heresy is that there are now four, not three, the Father, the Son, the Spirit and the Body. Now that is absolute heresy. The Father becomes the Son, the Son becomes the Spirit, the Spirit becomes the church. Where are we now? This is pure nonsense.”

Not only has he totally misquoted this point, but he puts upon the misquote an interpretation that is an even worse error. To be inaccurate can be attributed to sloppiness. However, when the Bible Answer Man gives the quote a meaning not even suggested by the passage, one needs to stretch the imagination to believe it was a mere error in research. It is upon this kind of “research” that the foundation of his charges of heresy rests.

The two sentences are properly quoted as follows:

The Father is in the Son, the Son is in the Spirit, and the Spirit is now in the Body. They are now four in one: the Father, the Son, the Spirit and the Body.

Do these sentences mean the church is now in the Godhead? Absolutely not! To determine the meaning of any isolated sentences, you must consider the context in which they appear.

The first hint of the context is the title of the chapter. Chapter Five is entitled, “The Oneness of the Church.” The context of this discussion is not the nature or components of the Godhead, rather the nature of the oneness of the church. What is this oneness? The portion in question is in a section headed, “The Unity of the Spirit.” So one might expect that the oneness of the church is related to the unity of the Spirit. Reading on, we find the third paragraph begins, “The oneness of the church is nothing but the Triune God, the very God in three Persons dispensed into us for the forming of the Body” [Italics supplied for emphasis]. Here you have the triune God in three Persons forming the body. One works on the other – subject and object. Are they four parts of the Godhead? Of course not! They are two distinct things. Immediately following the quote in question, the text says, “How is all of this possible? How can the Triune God be one with the Body? It is only by faith and baptism.” Does it sound like the body is part of the Godhead? Does the Son have to have faith and be baptized to be one with the Father and Spirit? Ridiculous! Obviously, he is speaking of something besides the oneness among the members of the Godhead. The context rules out the Bible Answer Man’s interpretation.

The point of this section is obvious to anyone with experience of the real oneness of the body. The oneness of the church is the unity of the Spirit (Eph. 4:3). This “unity of the Spirit” is just the experience of the Spirit in the members of the body. When we live in the Spirit, we also know the Father and the Son. The oneness They enjoy is in the Spirit and, when we the members of the body partake of the Spirit, we experience that same oneness. That oneness is the unity of the Spirit. It is experienced by the Father, the Son, and the Spirit in the Godhead and it is also experienced by us as members of the Body. So, we are four in one unity. This is exactly what the Lord prayed for in John 17:21-22, “That they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me.” The oneness of the believers here is “even as” the very oneness of the Godhead – this must be the unity of the Spirit spoken of in Ephesians 4. John 17:22 continues: “And the glory which Thou hast given Me, I have given to them; that they may be one, just as We are one” (NASV). Our oneness in the body is just the experience in the Spirit of the oneness enjoyed by the Triune God! In this we are four in one. This in no way can be taken to mean that we are a part of the Godhead. It is a pity that the Bible Answer Man, not understanding this deep and subjective truth, would impose upon it his own interpretation, which is foreign to the context, and misuse it to accuse us of heresy. This is just one example of the irresponsible twisting of the Bible Answer Man.

We feel grateful and thankful to our Father that we could experience such oneness – the very oneness of the Triune God. This oneness is far more than doctrinal agreement or mere organizational unity. This oneness is the sweet, enjoyable result of the experience of the Spirit. How precious is this oneness! With the psalmist (Psa. 133) we praise the Lord for the enjoyment of such oneness!

Thread update:

1. Witness life described Christianity as becoming an organization of Satan.
2. Witness Lee rejoiced in the downfall of Christianity. (Hallelujah).
3. Witness Lee said the traditional concept of the trinity was inadequate.
4. Witness Lee made the trinity adequate by raising man up to the level of God and including him in the Godhead.

Accusation campaigns against the local churches and key serving ones is nothing new.

In 1951, following the entry of China into the Korean War the previous October, a widespread accusation movement was launched with the aim of expelling all foreign missionaries. Propaganda campaigns consisting of trumped up charges were carried out against these missionaries based on manufactured evidence of heinous crimes, including espionage, rape, and murder. As the missionaries left, the numbers in the local churches in China exploded. In the political mindset of the CCP leaders, this posed a threat, so on April 10, 1952, Watchman Nee was arrested and imprisoned under the guise of claims of financial crimes. Internal government documents show that PRC officials wanted to curb the spread of his work and the increase of the local churches.

In January 1956 the PRC seized the meeting hall of the church in Shanghai and arrested many co-workers and leading ones among the churches throughout China. Concurrently, a large-scale propaganda campaign against Watchman Nee was launched, including mass accusation meetings across the country to condemn “the anti-revolutionary sect of Watchman Nee.” On February 2 Liberation Daily published “I Accuse” by Lily Hsu, which began, “Recently the government uncovered the counter-revolutionary group of Watchman Nee which has long been clothed with religion but has undertaken counter-revolutionary activities. My heart is filled with indescribable joy and relief. I would like to thank our government heartily for removing such a great evil for us.” At the time Hsu described the cause of her change of heart: “For several months the officials patiently educated me. I have finally become awake; I abhor them and I will uncover their many ugly counter-revolutionary details. I feel deeply that the counter-revolutionary group of Watchman Nee is not a group of ‘senior brothers and sisters’ but a group of ferocious wolves in sheepskin, chief criminals who were poisoning our young people.” She reveled in their imprisonment, saying, “Now that the government has arrested all the members of this counter-revolutionary group, it is such a satisfying news!” In her book Hsu describes the excruciating pressures exerted upon her to accuse Watchman Nee but skips the shameful substance of her accusations. Her accusations at that time were entirely political in nature and included none of the salacious matters she has later claimed as memories.

Other articles found at www.shepherdingwords.org
A defense apologetic website set up by the Living Stream Ministry in the US.

All Articles

Teaching and Fellowship
Some Questions and Answers Regarding Deputy Authority
The Minister of the Age, Not Infallibility
Concerning Having One Publication Work
A Specious Claim of Racism
Concerning the Ministry’s Attitude Toward Sisters
Spiritual Authority and Its Misuse
Our Attitude Toward Seeking Professional Psychological Help
The Proper Way to Deal with Problems in the Church
Following the Vision or Following a Man
Concerning Hierarchy and Organization
Covering, Not Covering Up
The One Unique New Testament Ministry
Does the Ministry Replace the Bible?
Handling Allegations of Abuse
Twisting Ron Kangas’s Words
Concerning Turmoils
Assailing the Ground of Oneness (3) – Was the Church in Jerusalem a ‘Regional’ Church?
Assailing the Ground of Oneness (4) – Are ‘House Churches’ Biblical?
A Christian’s Attitude Toward Reforming Society
A Christian’s Attitude Toward Government and Politics
History
Facts Concerning Daystar Motor Homes
Were Max Rapoport and John Ingalls “Forced Out”?
Facts Concerning Statements Attributed to Max Rapoport
A Response from the Church in Houston
Facts Concerning Lily Hsu
Concerning the Church of Almighty God/Eastern Lightning
More articles to come.

@sonship

Which of these do you consider an unfair accusation? (Seeing as they are all attributable to quotes by Lee).

1. Witness life described Christianity as becoming an organization of Satan.
2. Witness Lee rejoiced in the downfall of Christianity. (Hallelujah).
3. Witness Lee said the traditional concept of the trinity was inadequate.
4. Witness Lee made the trinity adequate by raising man up to the level of God and including him in the Godhead.

Ghost intends to ignore replies.

From A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing by Witness Lee

The sentences relating to Lee's mentioning of "four-in-one" are bolded by me.

What is the church? The church is one Body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all—this is the church. In the universe there is nothing like the church. How wonderful it is! Ultimately, the church is a group of people who are in union with the Triune God and are mingled with the Triune God. The Triune God and the church are four-in-one. Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the “four-in-one God.” These four are the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body. The three of the Divine Trinity cannot be confused or separated, and the four-in-one also cannot be separated or confused. This mysterious union and mingling of the Triune God with the Body of Christ is for the purpose of dispensing. The Spirit as the essence of the Body of Christ continually dispenses Himself into us. At the same time, the Lord is constantly dispensing His element into us. Likewise, while the Father is over us, overshadowing us, while He is passing through us, caring for us, and while He is in us, remaining with us, He continually dispenses Himself into us. Thus, the church is the result of the dispensing of the Triune God.

When the Triune God dispenses Himself into His believers, the church as an organism is produced in the universe. Furthermore, the Triune God is continually, little by little, dispensing Himself into all the members as their element, their essence, and their enjoyment.

THE CHURCH BEING CHRIST
Scripture Reading: Col. 1:12, 15-19, 27; 2:2b, 6-7, 9, 16-17; 3:4, 10-11; 1 Cor. 12:12-13; Phil. 1:21a; 1 Cor. 15:45b; 2 Cor. 3:17; 2 Tim. 4:22; Rom. 8:4
...
Some theologians may think that it is a blasphemy to say that the church is Christ. However, the apostle Paul says, “To me, to live is Christ” (Phil. 1:21a). To live Christ is not to be deified to become a member of the Godhead; rather, to live Christ is to be a member of Christ that has the life and nature of Christ, just as all the parts of our body have the life and the nature of our person. As the branches of Christ, the true vine, we surely have the life and the nature of the vine. Because we have the same life and nature as Christ, we are parts of Christ, and we may even say that we are Christ.

@sonship said
Ghost intends to ignore replies.

@sonship said
Ghost intends to ignore replies.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Between the two or three threads with the name "Witness Lee" in the title, these charges have been replied to.

Maybe they have not been addressed as systematically as I would wish. But all have been addressed for those who want to read through the threads. Evidence for the cause of misunderstandings have been submitted.

Some evidence countering charges required clicking on links of videos where missing omitted words of publications under criticism were provided.

Re-writing replies to the same person is avoided.
And evidence is not persuasion.

Let Ghost repeat the charges as he wishes and say I'm "floundering" as much as it suits him.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Brief summary of replies in the two or three threads about Witness Lee

1. Witness life described Christianity as becoming an organization of Satan.

2. Witness Lee rejoiced in the downfall of Christianity. (Hallelujah).

3. Witness Lee said the traditional concept of the trinity was inadequate.

4. Witness Lee made the trinity adequate by raising man up to the level of God and including him in the Godhead.'

@sonship

Do you regret saying man was the same 'species' as God? (And providing the 'simile' that the son of a goat is a goat).

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Do you regret saying man was the same 'species' as God?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Here we have an excerpt from Witness Lee's commentary on the story of Jesus feeding the crowd of 5,000 with the fish and 5 loaves (Matthew 14:14-21)

"...these five loaves were barley loaves. Barley is a type of the resurrected Christ (Leviticus 23:10). Thus, the barley loaves signify Christ in resurrection as food to us. Loaves are of the vegetable life, signifying ...[text shortened]... s 'teaching' from Lee in accordance with general Christian understanding of these biblical passages?