The Wisdom of Witness Lee

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

The Atheist Ghost -of-a-Duke seems so concerned. Touching.
Maybe he's finally thinking about exploring sound biblical christian teaching.

The New Testament assures us that to be begotten of God is to be a partaker in the divine nature. (Second Peter 1:4)

Witness Lee has not been the only Christian teacher to try to drive this home to believers.

The book of First John says that the SEED of God, implanted into the saved, is the very factor that allows them to overcome sin. Why? Because God does not sin ... period.

"Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God." (1
John 3:9)

So the Christian has to exercise faith and learn to abide under the influence of this living and indwelling seed of divine life - which is God's life.

"For everything that has been begotten of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory which has overcome the world - our faith." (1 John 5:4)

Lee is one of a number of teachers who has attempted to emphasize God's life being in the Christian by speaking of God begetting gods. He does not mean as objects of worship or as sharing non-cummunicable attributes of God such as -

God being omnipotent.
God being omnipresent.
God being omniscient.
God being the Creator of the universe.
God being one who we worship.

Paul Billheimer's book Destined for the Throne, was written by no follower of Witness Lee, made lofty claims about Christians too. And Billheimer preached much of the same things. We Christians underestimate to what degree God begetting us has made us His children, His sons in life and nature.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/970713.Destined_for_the_Throne

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

The Atheist Ghost -of-a-Duke seems so concerned. Touching.
Maybe he's finally thinking about exploring sound biblical christian teaching.

Your belief sir that an atheist, by virtue of being an atheist, hasn't already explored sound biblical Christian teaching is your undoing.

(I would suggest we both provide copies of our theological degrees, but ToO would suddenly resurface to wag his finger).

@Ghost-of-a-Duke
What undoing?

This was written by a former Galilean fisherman -

" ... Him who has called us to His own glory and virtue! "

God has called the believer "to His own glory and virtue!"

" ... Him who has called us to His own glory and virtue, through which He has granted to precious and exceedingly great promises ..."

That is exceedingly precious and great promises for every believer. Not necessarily great and precious academic degrees.

"that by these great promises which are precious[/b] you might become partakers of the divine nature, ..." [/b] [/b]

Praise God for men and women with degrees in academic knowledge. Praise Him more that every believer in Christ has this precious promise - to be a partaker in God's divine nature whereby we CAN be called to God's own glory and virtue.

" partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust." .

A fisherman wrote that under divine inspiration. He got his AoG by following Jesus. Oh, AoG stands for "approved of God". That's what I want.

You can begin by thanking God. "Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus, I thank You that your precious blood cleanses me from every sin. And I praise and thank you that according to Your word, I may become a PARTAKER of the divine nature. Lord, I receive this precious gift in your name. Forgive my every sin. Wash me in your redeeming blood. And plant the divine SEED within my being Lord Jesus. THANKYOU

Then go to bed tonight meditating and praying with thanksgiving over this passage -

"Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God, and we are. Because of this the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

Behold, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is." (1 John 3:1,2)

An academic degree is good. But God has granted each one who trust in Christ the authority to be one of the children of God --BORN or God --- BEGOTTEN of God.

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,

but of God." (John 1:12,13)

So waste no more time. Get Christ into your spirit so you can begin to be transformed. Then you can be prepared to live in the age to come at the soon coming second coming of the Son of God.

"So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time to those who eagerly await Him, apart from sin, unto salvation." (Hebrews 9:28)

Appreciation is not veneration. It is appreciation and thankfulness to the Lord for such a faithful servant of God. He speaks of standing on the shoulders of all the forgoing teachers of the Bible.

01 The Triune God, His Word, His Revelation, His Vision, and His Move

YouTube

@sonship said
Appreciation is not veneration. It is appreciation and thankfulness to the Lord for such a faithful servant of God. He speaks of standing on the shoulders of all the forgoing teachers of the Bible.

01 The Triune God, His Word, His Revelation, His Vision, and His Move

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwmJDX4Rj-I

It is ultimately a question of perspective sonship. You have to remember that you are in the cult looking out and others are more objective observers.

@divegeester said
It is ultimately a question of perspective sonship. You have to remember that you are in the cult looking out and others are more objective observers.

You can mention "perspective" all you wish. Your definition of cult is ineffective. You need to either get another definition or definitely and positively point out a biblically wrong teaching.

Ie. "You all hold such a person in high regard therefore you venerate him = a cult" won't work. We do not say the churches are "Lee-ian Church" as in "Lutheran Church." We do not say the churches are the Lee-an Church like the "Wesleyan Church."

I suspect that because name calling is easier you will not attempt the alternative of showing what is actually heterodox or heretical in our teachings.

From The Life Study of First Timothy by Witness Lee

Lee speaks different kinds of theology and "old womanish tales".

In studying the Bible we should not be careless. Even little words such as “if” and “for” deserve our attention. Paying attention to words such as these often can bring in light. These words not only enable us to see the continuation in thought; they also afford a way for light to come in. Because by the Lord’s mercy we have received so much light from the Word, we can say that in the recovery we know the Bible in the way of life, light, and spirit.

In the United States today there are different kinds of theology. Certain seminaries teach modernistic theology, which denies the authority of the Bible and teaches that Jesus was merely a man, that His death on the cross was not for redemption but was merely an act of martyrdom, and that He did not rise from the dead. In the theology departments of some secular colleges and universities, religion and theology are regarded merely as part of man’s culture. However, in other seminaries fundamental theology is taught. Nevertheless, the standard concerning the truth is not very high. The highest standard of theology found among Christians today in the United States is that which has its source in the teachings of the Brethren, especially as those teachings were made popular by Dr. C. I. Scofield and his famous Reference Bible and correspondence courses. Although Scofield adopted nearly all the teachings of the Brethren, he rejected the Brethren way to practice the church life. The leading teacher among the Brethren was J. N. Darby. Anyone who calls himself a theologian but who is not familiar with the writings of Darby is not a theologian of the highest caliber.

In 1925 I wrote to Brother Nee asking him which book, according to his knowledge, would be the best to help me understand the Bible verse by verse. As a young believer, I was eager to obtain a thorough knowledge of the Word of God. I wanted to understand every verse of the Bible, from the first verse in Genesis to the last verse in Revelation. Brother Nee told me that the best help in knowing the Bible in this way was Darby’s Synopsis of the Books of the Bible. Eight years later he gave me a copy of this five volume work.

J. N. Darby and his contemporaries were great teachers of the Bible. According to history, the Bible was opened more to the Brethren teachers than to anyone who had gone before them. These Brethren teachers did not know the Word merely according to tradition or according to letters in black and white; they knew the Bible according to fresh light which came directly from the Lord. Having been enlightened by the Lord, they received the vision and the revelation of many truths in the Word.

Christians today often talk about the Bible in dead letters. Some are familiar with Bible geography and history; they also know certain elementary teachings. However, they may not have any light or revelation.

We have pointed out that it is possible for Christians to speak of certain Bible doctrines as if they were nothing more than old-womanish tales. For some, even the doctrine of justification by faith is a “tale.” For example, a particular Lutheran pastor in China fifty years ago taught justification by faith. Nevertheless, he himself was an opium smuggler. As far as he was concerned, justification by faith was nothing more than a “tale.” Concerning this matter, he was altogether without light or revelation. One day an elderly lady evangelist from Norway, who was very prevailing in the preaching of regeneration, stopped this Lutheran pastor after a meeting and asked him if he had been regenerated. When he tried to tell her that he had been regenerated, she said that simply by looking at his face, she knew that he had not been regenerated. This Lutheran pastor was insulted and so much filled with hatred for this lady evangelist that he plotted that night to murder her. But at that very hour the Holy Spirit enlightened him and rebuked him, and he repented and cried to the Lord. The next morning when this lady evangelist saw him, she looked at his face and said, “Praise the Lord, you have been regenerated!” Then in the meeting this pastor gave his testimony with great impact. This influenced hundreds of young people to be saved. The case of this Lutheran pastor illustrates the difference between knowing the Bible merely according to the black and white letters and knowing the Word according to the shining of the divine light.

Among Christians today there are many old-womanish tales. Not only are there “tales” about doctrine, but also “tales” having to do with so-called miracles. A certain Pentecostal pastor once told me about teeth that were supposedly filled miraculously with gold. Another Pentecostal minister claimed that in a certain meeting a person in the congregation miraculously spoke in Chinese. Both stories, however, were nothing more than “tales.”

The apostle’s teaching in 1 Timothy is far superior to old-womanish tales. Furthermore, in this Epistle there is no mention of miraculous things. On the contrary, in 5:23 Paul tells Timothy, “No longer drink water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent weaknesses.” Here Paul does not exercise a miraculous gift to heal his co-worker. Instead, he encourages Timothy to be human, not religious, and to care for his health in a human way.

Many of those who teach the Bible do not have any light or revelation. They merely teach the Word according to the black and white letters, perhaps also giving out information about geography or history. Where can you hear a message from 1 Timothy 1:4 on the subject of God’s dispensation in the New Testament? By the Lord’s mercy, He has shined upon us and made known His truth. For this reason, I hope that reputable theologians and professors will study the Recovery Version and the Life-study Messages, even study them in a critical way. I believe that if they study our writings, they will receive light.

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?p

@sonship

In an LSM publication, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing (p. 54), Lee states, ”My burden is to show you clearly that God’s economy and plan is to make Himself man and to make us, His created beings, God.” On page 53 we read, “We are born of God; hence, in this sense, we are God.” In the same publication, Lee refers to the Triune God as now the ‘four-in-one’ God, with man as the fourth person.

Are you truly blind to how this man has strayed away from the Christian path?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Are you truly blind to how this man has strayed away from the Christian path?

Here's a brief answer to a question which involves much.

How is the quotation straying away from the Christian path?

And how can an Atheist like you not have a similar concern for how YOU have strayed away from the Christian path that there is God ? Have you not MORE strayed from the Christian path teaching Atheism?

"Godliness" is DEFINED by the Apostle Paul as God manifest in the flesh. For God to be manifest in the human flesh is certainly in some sense for God to become man and man to become God.

"But if I delay, I write that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth.

And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness:

He who was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
taken up in glory." (1 Timothy 3:15,16)

Godliness is defined as God being manifest in the flesh. And this manifestation of God in humanity is not restricted to Christ the Son of God but extends to the Body of Christ, the member sons.

For all throughout the letters of First and Second Timothy Paul is teaching how the believers should live godliness - in 1 Tim. 2:2, 10 (godly) 3:16; 4:7; 5:4 ... (respect) 6:3,5,6,11; 2 Tim. 3:5, 12 (godly); and Titus 1:1; 2:12 (godly).

Its opposite is ungodliness mentioned in 1 Tim. 1:9 and ungodly, see also 2 Tim. 2:16, Titus 2:12.

So you see, the exhortation for Christians to live godly, to live in godliness and not ungodly is all about God manifested in the flesh - or the mingling of God and humanity.

In a sense this is God becoming us the believers and we becoming Him - expressing His communicable attributes in human virtues.

That is in the communicable attributes only.

Humans will never become
objects of worship,
creators of universes,
omniscient,
omnipotent,
or omnipresent.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Are you truly blind to how this man has strayed away from the Christian path?

Here's a brief answer to a question which involves much.

How is the quotation straying away from the Christian path?

And how can an Atheist like you not have a similar concern for how YOU have strayed away from the Christian path that there is God ? Ha ...[text shortened]... r become
objects of worship,
creators of universes,
omniscient,
omnipotent,
or omnipresent.

It is with this 'mingling' stuff where you have really strayed from the Christian path. Lee referred to the Triune God as the ‘four-in-one’ God, with man as the fourth person.

I wonder how many genuine Christians are cool with this?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

It is with this 'mingling' stuff where you have really strayed from the Christian path. Lee referred to the Triune God as the ‘four-in-one’ God, with man as the fourth person.

Mingled is a biblical word. In the typology of the meal offering, the bread was mingled with oil. And many scholars agree that this is a typology of the incarnation of God as a man.

God was MINGLED with man as the fine flour was mingled with oil in the meal offering.

When I received Jesus as Lord, He came into my spirit. I do not mean sentimentally. I mean actually.

'He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

One part of my being is MINGLED as "one spirit" with the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Spirit.

Let me say it again. "He who is JOINED to the Lord [Jesus] is one spirit".

Previously, God the Holy Spirit was there and my human spirit was here - two spirits.

Now that I have be joined to the Lord [Jesus] God the Holy Spirit and my regenerated human spirit have become united to be "one spirit".

That is a mingling. That is a mingling of God and me. Sorry.
That is be being mingled with Jesus Christ.

YOU can partake of the same reality.

Joined to the Lord - mingled with the Lord. And the Lord is God.

Mingled is biblical going back to the typology of Leviticus 2:1-16.

Now, the four in one matter is perhaps jolting. To speak of the Three-one God becoming four in one is a bit jolting. But consider John 17. Christ's mighty prayer is that we the saved would be one as the divine Us is one.

"That they all may be one, even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that the also may be in Us; that the world may believe that you have sent Me." (John 17:21)

The eternally saved as one and one in the divine Us of the Father and the Son is the basis for the atypical expression four in one.

It means Jesus prayed that the saved would be PERFECTED into oneness with He and His Father by the uniting Spirit.

"And the glory which you have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one;

I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (See John 17:22,23)

God says in the Old Testament that He gives His glory to no one.

"I am Jehovah, that is My name, And I will not give My glory to another, nor My praise to idols." (Isaiah 42:8)

God who will not give His glory to another has called us into His own glory and virtue. And Christ, God incarnate, says that the glory which the Father gave to Him He gives to His saved believers - and that forever.

I wonder how many genuine Christians are cool with this?

There is a need for the recovery of the neglected truths of the New Testament.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

It is with this 'mingling' stuff where you have really strayed from the Christian path. Lee referred to the Triune God as the ‘four-in-one’ God, with man as the fourth person.

Mingled is a biblical word. In the typology of the meal offering, the bread was mingled with oil. And many scholars agree that this is a typology of ...[text shortened]... e Lord is God.

Mingled is biblical going back to the typology of Leviticus 2:1-16.

Regurgitating Lee and corrupting the biblical text doesn't get you anywhere. Again, I wonder how many genuine Christians are cool with him referring to the Triune God as the ‘four-in-one’ God, with man as the fourth person?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Here we go again.

Regurgitating Lee

What is wrong with regurgitating sound teaching on revelation?
There is not one thing wrong with regurgitating it back to others.

If I seek to be in the same experience, there is no shame in regurgitating. Lee's ministry has become my ministry.

As Paul told Timothy:

"But you, continue in the things which you have learned and have been assured of, knowing from which ones you have learned them ..." (2 Tim. 3:14)

Paul instructed his younger learner to continue in the things and also to remember the ones from whom he learned - considering their life's example.

Are you still waiting for me to be ashamed to repeat what Witness Lee taught?
Please don't hold your breath while you wait.

Regurgitating Lee and corrupting the biblical text

That we are corrupting biblical text is what you are trying to prove.
You haven't shown any corruption of biblical text at all.

You've mentioned some things that you don't like to hear perhaps.
That is not corrupting biblical text.