@medullah saidSo nothing clearly stating 'heaven'. Yet 'going to heaven' is a normal part of the Christian language, but the bible does not use that expression at all. In your case the 144,000 is going to heaven, but again its not clearly stated. For me personally, if Jesus said the thief on the cross is going to paradise with him, I will repeat that phrase without changing it to 'going to heaven'. Paradise and heaven are two different places. The end result of all life on earth is New Jerusalem. That is the place prepared for mankind.. not heaven. Again two different places.
It's clear that the 144,00 are the cream of the crop from their originl reference in Rev 7:14, where the "great crowd" is also present. When we meet them again at Rev 14:1 we are told that they are on Mount Zion standing with the lamb. A little later at Rev 14:3 they are described as "singing a new song that nobody else was able to master....." and that they " have been BROU ...[text shortened]... euphemism for the New Jerusalem which is referenced at Rev 21.
Maybe one for a bit more research?
In any case are they Jews before Christ who form the 144,000 or are they Jews after Christ, or both. It seems you made a case for Jews before Christ do not have an heavenly option.
@Rajk999
It amazes me how so many think that everyone is clearing off to heaven; it’s going to be very crowded place if that’s true. Psalms 37:11 tells you that “the meek shall inherit the earth”, and in case there is any misunderstanding Jesus says that very same thing at Matthew 5:5.
As for the case of Jews not going to heaven, Jesus appears to say this at Matt 11:11, but for the sake of transparency I would declare that John didn’t actually die until Matt 14?
@medullah saidIf the meek inherit the earth the strong will take it off them.
@Rajk999
It amazes me how so many think that everyone is clearing off to heaven; it’s going to be very crowded place if that’s true. Psalms 37:11 tells you that “the meek shall inherit the earth”, and in case there is any misunderstanding Jesus says that very same thing at Matthew 5:5.
As for the case of Jews not going to heaven, Jesus appears to say this at Matt 11:11, but for the sake of transparency I would declare that John didn’t actually die until Matt 14?
@rajk999 said
So nothing clearly stating 'heaven'. Yet 'going to heaven' is a normal part of the Christian language, but the bible does not use that expression at all. In your case the 144,000 is going to heaven, but again its not clearly stated. For me personally, if Jesus said the thief on the cross is going to paradise with him, I will repeat that phrase without changing it to 'going ...[text shortened]... er Christ, or both. It seems you made a case for Jews before Christ do not have an heavenly option.
Christ alone saves us, Steven Lawson speaks to this correctly in my opinion.
@rajk999 saidNope, doesn’t matter Jesus alone saves us, either by them looking forward to Him in the future as those in the OT did, or as we do looking to Him in the past. God transcends time He is aware of people’s faith in Him, He will have mercy on who He will have mercy.
Somebody said otherwise?
@kellyjay saidYou seem delusional and prone to argue with yourself. How is your point related what what I said, if nobody is contesting the point that Jesus saved all people?
Nope, doesn’t matter Jesus alone saves us, either by them looking forward to Him in the future as those in the OT did, or as we do looking to Him in the past. God transcends time He is aware of people’s faith in Him, He will have mercy on who He will have mercy.
@rajk999 saidHe save’s those who put their faith into God’s Grace, those who belong to Him, those who repent. Having the right to be a child of God does not automatically make it so.
You seem delusional and prone to argue with yourself. How is your point related what what I said, if nobody is contesting the point that Jesus saved all people?