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Originally posted by FMFThat is God's call, not mine.
Is the "Hell" that you believe Hitler has gone to also the "legitimate destination" for any of the non-believers in Christ who frequent this community?
I simply believe that God is a just God. He will not glibly ignore the injustice to others.
When Hitler put that gun in his mouth, he was not escaping anything.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm so confused! They're offended by Christians who believe hell exists, and offended by Christians who don't believe hell exists. And they are often offended by Christians who believe heaven exists.
Lemon Lime cavorting with those Jehovah's Witnesses again, how despicable! has he no sense of decency!
There must be some common denominator here that can explain this, but for the life of me I just can't figure out what it might be... because I'm not as intelligent as they are.
Originally posted by lemon limeSpeaking for myself, I am not "offended" by Christian 'eternal-torture-for-thoughtcrime' ideology; but I do think it's ludicrous and morally incoherent.
I'm so confused! They're offended by Christians who believe hell exists, and offended by Christians who don't believe hell exists. And they are often offended by Christians who believe heaven exists.
There must be some common denominator here that can explain this, but for the life of me I just can't figure out what it might be... because I'm not as intelligent as [b]they are.[/b]
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-Removed-
What do you think the parable about Lazarus which you introduced is telling us about hell?
1.) I think there is nothing in the account to suggest that it is a parable. No parable of Jesus ever mentioned anyone by name as this one does - "Lazarus".
2.) The rich man does not ask to be removed from the place of punishment. That is significant I think. He only asks for some temporary relief.
This could be that he fully realizes without complaint that THAT is where he belongs. Is there any hint that he requests to taken out or away from the place? I see none.
3.) The only possible comfort that he can conceivably have is the knowledge that those left alive whom he loves will not come to the same place.
He did not want his five brothers to come to the same punishing place in Hades as he was. And all they could do for him to make him have any happiness was not go there too.
4.) The number 5 as in five brothers, is indicative of responsibility. It is there own responsibility to choose the same fate or to choose the blessing Lazarus had.
5.) I do not have to be certain of the geography, the physics, the physiology, or the science of the matter. The message is communicated so that human beings of all different levels of sophistication can grasp it.
You want to listen to Moses, the prophets, the word of God, and the One who rose from the dead - Jesus.
"But he ][the rich man] No, Father Abraham; but if someone risen from the dead would go to them, they will repent. But he said to him. If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead." (v.30,31)
Do I know for certain that the fate of the punished man is everlasting? Maybe from that one verse I don't. But one should not be curious to go there to find out.
Lastly -
6.) The phrase that he lifted up his eyes in Hades is meaningful to me.
"And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham from afar and Lazarus in his bosom" (v.23)
Ignoring God's word cannot be indefinite or forever.
Procrastination or ignoring so as to thrust away from oneself the issue of final destination must be temporary. The man had a rendezvous with the truth. The end of the line WILL come eventually.
"And in Hades he lifted up his eyes ..."
The truth of God's judgment AND God's redemption and salvation FROM judgment will eventually set in. It cannot be swept under some rug forever. The time to lift up the eyes and grasp the Gospel is while there IS time.
Originally posted by SuzianneObviously not. As I said, I was "Speaking for myself". Jehovah's Witnesses are not "offended" by the things lemon lime mentioned, either. I think you're missing the dynamic here: the robbie-lemon lime thing is a little bit like the robbie-redbadger thing, at least when it comes to divegeester. Hadn't you noticed?
Are you a "Jehovah's Witness"?