28 Apr 21
@bigdoggproblem saidThe bible supports corporal punishment. There is no need to go into details about what punishment is appropriate for what offence. The bible rarely does that. A slave or servant is the property of the master, sometimes for life and sometimes for a specified period.
Good question!
Strangely, the Bible verse seems indifferent as to whether the slave has actually done something wrong, or not. The only insight we get is '[the slave] is [the master's] money'.
It sounds like the Bible thinks I may beat my slave if he causes me financial harm of pretty much any kind.
I think physical assault is an extremely excessive punishment ...[text shortened]... e slave.
I think the very idea of one person owning another person is egregiously, morally wrong.
You are free to make your moral judgments about that but you really cannot do that fairly. We do not live in such a time where every surrounding nation wants you destroyed and these nations were constantly at war. Many slaves were prisoners of war. I would say judging by todays standards they got a good deal. They get to live.
Personally if I lived in those times and I owned agricultural property I would have had a few dozen slaves working for me.
@rajk999 saidYou do realize that the Bible was used in the U.S. to justify slavery, correct? And that supporters of slavery (or those who deny how evil it was) have also claimed U.S. slaves "liked" being slaves or weren't treated "that bad" right?
You are free to make your moral judgments about that but you really cannot do that fairly. We do not live in such a time where every surrounding nation wants you destroyed and these nations were constantly at war. Many slaves were prisoners of war. I would say judging by todays standards they got a good deal. They get to live.
If God is allegedly so moral that he'll throw people into an eternal hellfire for "sin", why isn't he moral enough to denounce slavery?
28 Apr 21
@rajk999 said"There is no need to go into details about what punishment is appropriate for what offence."
The bible supports corporal punishment. There is no need to go into details about what punishment is appropriate for what offence. The bible rarely does that. A slave or servant is the property of the master, sometimes for life and sometimes for a specified period.
You are free to make your moral judgments about that but you really cannot do that fairly. We do not live ...[text shortened]... in those times and I owned agricultural property I would have had a few dozen slaves working for me.
Have you thought this through?
Seems like an asinine statement, to me.
@vivify saidNothing there makes sense to me as Im not an American so I care nothing for the US Govt and what they do. People use any holy book to justify just about any deed. That does not make the holy book wrong or immoral.
You do realize that the Bible was used in the U.S. to justify slavery, correct? And that supporters of slavery (or those who deny how evil it was) have also claimed U.S. slaves "liked" being slaves or weren't treated "that bad" right?
If God is allegedly so moral that he'll throw people into an eternal hellfire for "sin", why isn't he moral enough to denounce slavery?
Let me repeat. Slavery in the time of the Jews was justified on the grounds that these were mostly pows, who wanted the Jews annihilated. Instead of killing them in war, God told the Jews to capture them and use then for work and other things. There are rules to follow and the core rule was to be fair to the slaves ie treat them well, release them after a while etc.
Personally I think the bible teaching was fair. What the US Govt [or anyone else for that matter] did is of no interest to me, neither does it make the bible teaching on this matter immoral.
28 Apr 21
@bigdoggproblem saidYes. I thought it through. I said .. The bible supports corporal punishment. There is no need to go into details about what punishment is appropriate for what offence.
"There is no need to go into details about what punishment is appropriate for what offence."
Have you thought this through?
Seems like an asinine statement, to me.
If that bible had to go through every detail of what could transpire to require punishment then it would be a cumbersome book.
God requires masters to be fair and just to their slaves, because masters also have a master in heaven who will judge their actions.
@rajk999 saidThat is logically impossible. There is no way to be "fair and just" to someone you are actively enslaving.
God requires masters to be fair and just to their slaves, because masters also have a master in heaven who will judge their actions.
This reminds me of Ariel Castro, who chained 3 girls in his basement against their will for 10 years, and told the police he always treated them well.
@vivify saidWhat utter BS, and what does that have to do with the bible. In the bible people who became slaves did something WRONG, deserving DEATH or severe punishment. Insead of death or severe punishment which had no real value, they had to work until their wrongdoing was canceled. This is fair and just.
That is logically impossible. There is no way to be "fair and just" to someone you are actively enslaving.
This reminds me of Ariel Castro, who chained 3 girls in his basement against their will for 10 years, and told the police he always treated them well.
30 Apr 21
@rajk999 saidThat's not true. Captives obtained through warfare became slaves.
What utter BS, and what does that have to do with the bible. In the bible people who became slaves did something WRONG, deserving DEATH or severe punishment. Insead of death or severe punishment which had no real value, they had to work until their wrongdoing was canceled. This is fair and just.
30 Apr 21
@rajk999 saidThis is false. The bible explicitly states that the Israelites can't make slaves out of their own people (Leviticus 25:42). Slaves were prisoners of war, not criminals.
What utter BS, and what does that have to do with the bible. In the bible people who became slaves did something WRONG, deserving DEATH or severe punishment. Insead of death or severe punishment which had no real value, they had to work until their wrongdoing was canceled. This is fair and just.
There is absolutely nothing "fair" or "just" about enslaving people.
30 Apr 21
@avalanchethecat saidI said that already.
That's not true. Captives obtained through warfare became slaves.
@avalanchethecat saidYes. They incurred debts which they could not repay. I wont assume they were all poor.
I think the bible also has rules for financial bondage, where the poor are able to sell themselves into slavery. Hard to argue that they did something deserving of punishment.