Questions for Deification Deniers

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

again to you

Substance more than innuendo.

I think a Christian brought substance to the thread when they said:

'It is a blasphemy to say "God said" when He didn't say it at all. To mischaracterize the scriptures as saying what it's not saying is why so many cults exists today.

It's akin to adding to, and taking away from the Word of God.'

PB1022,

I really would be interested to know how you think Jesus Christ is different today in terms of status from the status He had during His earthly ministry.

1.) Statuses before His exaltation after resurrection:

"[Christ] Who is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation, "

"Firstborn of all creation" should not be confused with "Firstborn from the dead."

"Because in Him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created thrugh HIm and unto Him."

This status of Creator also would include man, flesh, human nature which were items through Christ which God created. This flesh and humanity He took upon Himself in incarnation

Now to His statuses after resurrection:

2.) And He is the Head of the Body, the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that He Himself might have the firstplace in all things; For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell."

As the new status, "the Head of the Body" He is the Head of an entity which is Christ dispensed into millions of people. This came into being with His resurrection.

In resurrection He changed Himself into a form in which He could be imparted into His "members" as thier inner life. "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) . This was a new status for Him.

In the second group of statueses - the beginning means Christ is the beginning of the new creation. The new creation is that old creation with God living in it. If anyone is in Christ there is a new creation. A man with God living in him.

This "the beginning" is referred to in Revelation 314 where Christ, the Amen, is the beginning of the [new] creation of God.

"And to the messenger of the church in Laodicea write: These things says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the beginning of the creation of God." (3:14)

This is the creation of God following the resurrection, exaltation, transfiguration, enthronementm, and becomming the life giving Holy Spirit of the man Jesus.

In fact. the Apostle Paul indentifies both the Head Christ and the corporate aggregate of His Body as "the Christ".

You heard me correctly. Again, the Apostle Paul indentifies both the Head Jesus Christ and His Body the church as the Christ.

Right here:

"For even as the body is one and has many members, yet all the members of the body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ." (1 Cor. 12:12)

Notice, here Paul did not say "so also is the church".
Nor did here he say "so also is the body of Christ".
Though these are true too, his utterance under inspiration causes him to write:

"so also is the CHRIST".
The Body of Christ and the Head Christ are together here "the Christ".

The church is therefore the expansion of Christ and the enlargement of Christ.

Paul never forgot this for when he was Saul persecuting the church the Lord Jesus said to Him . . . "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" (Acts 9:4)

Saul was not just persecuting Christians. He was attacking, damaging. fighting against the great "Me" of Jesus Himself dispensed into His redeemed people.

@PB1022

Now I think I might move on to your second question.
(But I will continue with some points on the first by and by)

And you’ve said how Christians who have passed are different than Jesus (not part of the Trinity; not omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent; not to be worshipped, etc.) but how are Christians who have passed and Jesus the same?

During thier lives they were being sanctified.
Christ was spreading from thier innermost spirit into their soul.

Some received more transformation.
Some received less.
Some perhaps not any hardly.

The saints of the past all died, which is what I think you mean by "passed".
They there now in Paradise having obtained different degrees os transformation and even having difference degrees of awareness of God's will all are in the pleasant section of Hades awaiting resurrection of the body and transfiguration.

This post will not be too long. But I would refer you to Paul saying that the saints awaiting resurrection should expect to receive different different degrees of glory, So I think on this side of the millennial kingdom, all the saints will be resurrected in different degrees of splendour like the different glorious of the heavenly bodies.

On the chapter dedicated to resurrection Paul writes:

"All flesh is not the same flesh, but one is of men, and another flesh is of cattle, and another flesh is of birds, and another of fish.

There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly is one thing, and that of the earthly is another.

There is another glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory,

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is reaised in incorruption; It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is reaised in power;

It is sown a soulish body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is also a spiritual one." (1 Cor. 15:39)

I stop here for length. You should be able to see that different degrees of glory probably await the resurrected and transfigured and raptured saints.

In the age of the new heaven and new earth FOLLOWING the millennial kingdom I think ALL the saints will obtain the SAME magnificent maximum glorification. But not so in the rewarding of the millennial kingdom.

Digest this, and I'll be back.

And you’ve said how Christians who have passed are different than Jesus (not part of the Trinity; not omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent; not to be worshipped, etc.) but how are Christians who have passed and Jesus the same?

We know that God intends that there be a collective, aggregate, corporate match for Christ. Christ is God-man. And all God's work of is wirth a view that this Christ have a counterpart to match Him.

No individual can fully express God mingled with man. But the Bible closes with a corporate entity of millions built up into a city which is called the Bride of the Wife.

When God created Adam He said that it was not good that the man should be alone. This utterance was very significant. It was a window into the heart of God Himself that He as the uncreated divine Person was not good to be alone.

God caused Adam to sleep and removed a rib bone from his body. Then the Bible says God builded it into a woman and brought her to the man. Out of one God created two. Then He took the two to make them one.

This significant episode of Gnesis chapter two was also a glimpse into the eternal purpose of God. Out from Himself He builds a corresponding collective entity. And this He intends to marry because it matches His life and nature and expression. But the Godhead is non-communicably His alone from eternity to eternity.

If you keep this little picture from EVe being brought to Adam having been builted out of what came out of Adam, AND you consider the end of the Bible, you should get like two book ends that match each other.

"And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, comning dowb out of heaven dfrom God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

What does it mean?

What does it mean " . . . that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God" (Eph. 3:19b) ?

@sonship said
What does it mean " . . . that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God" (Eph. 3:19b) ?

Being devout? Does it refer to piety? Worshipping God with all one's heart? Earnest obedience? A full understanding or appreciation for God's creation? Sincere and deeply-seated belief?

"We have this treasure in earthen vessels" says the Apostle Paul.

What do you all think Paul meant by that?

What is "this treasure" ?
What is the "earthen vessels".

What is that about?
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)

@sonship said
What is "this treasure" ?
What is the "earthen vessels".

What is "this treasure" ?

Faith? Belief? Faithfulness? Constancy? Prayerfulness? A proclivity to love one another and do good works?

What is the "earthen vessels".

Human beings? Believers? The faithful? The obedient? Followers of Christ?

@sonship said
What is that about?
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)

That God is a powerful deity and humans should have faith in him and worship him?

" . . . Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col. 1:27)

What in the word is that?
How can Christ be "in you" ?

What does Paul means "Christ in you, the hope of glory"?

Does that have anything to do with "treasure in earthen vessels" you think?

Jesus said "For whoevef wants to saver his soul-life shall lose it, but whoever loses his siul life for My sake shall find it." (Matt. 16:25)

That strange. That's paradoxical, isn't it?
What do you think Jesus meant there?

Lose your soul-life (self) ?
FInd your soul-life (self) ?

Hiow do you lose your self to find your self following Jesus?

@sonship said
" . . . Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col. 1:27)

What in the word is that?
How can Christ be "in you" ?

Faith in him resides in you? His influence is at work? An all-permeating desire to worship him and obey him has taken hold of the believer? The "you" has faith that is not dead? The desire to do "good works" is attributable to Christ?

@sonship said
How do you lose your self to find your self following Jesus?

You immerse yourself in your faith? You become a different person? Following Jesus changes you? You leave behind attributes of your old self? Your faith makes you behave differently than before?