Manufacturing Transgender Kids

@philokalia said
There is an objective reality, yes.

Right and wrong do absolutely exist.

And this objective reality isn't felt?

@philokalia said
Call me old fashioned...

But i don't understand how it'd work if you said you were a girl but you have a penis, and vice versa. It's simply not accurate...

And if you cut your body up to change that... Well, that is not normal and healthy.

It's not what you want and it's not the proper approach to one's gender identity...

Even if you think it's acceptable an ...[text shortened]... t's dishonest to actually portray the process of going through this as a normal and healthy process.

You and sonship are both missing something elementary here. A person's gender, unlike his age or height or weight or degree of baldness or the having or not having of a particular organ or gland, is not simply and wholly determined by what he is, and which could be true of a dead body, but is essentially co-determined by who he is and this necessarily involves what he thinks of himself and believes about himself while he is alive. A body has a sex organ, but this does not exhaust what a person is and therefore does not dictate what gender the person is. A person is something beyond what his body is; as Christians, you and sonship accept this principle already; all you have to do is apply that same idea to the concept of gender.

This was discussed in great detail and at great length in another thread. In that thread, KellyJay maintained the position, which you apparently share, that physiology (sex organs) determines gender. I suggest you go over that thread; it contained many useful links to well-documented research on the topic of gender, sexuality, and the extent to which gender is under-determined by physiology.


Thread 179327


If, after reading over that thread and digesting the articles linked there, you still have something new to say about it, I would be happy to discuss the matter further. However, at this point in this thread, I haven't the patience to rehash it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I am fed up sir always being on the same page as you. I formerly request we have different opinions on the next forum thread we enter.

For the nominal fee of 1200 pounds, I will happily adopt an opinion at variance with at least one of yours. From which your several opinions would you have me diverge?

@divegeester said
I get why you would think we are “deluded”, but why are we “fools”?

A fool is one who chooses to remain ignorant.
Your own views of the Christian hell puts you at odds with many fools here. True ?

@moonbus said
For the nominal fee of 1200 pounds, I will happily adopt an opinion at variance with at least one of yours. From which your several opinions would you have me diverge?

Hey, I have more than several opinions. (I have at least 16 opinions just on the topic of cheese).

Let me ask this.

A child is given puberty blocking drugs and convinced she is a good candidate for transgender operation around 20 years old.

Now if in 15 years this person regrets that physical alterations that have been performed on the body and decides afterall she DOES identify as a female, does she have a right to do so ?

Are we to dictate that she CANNOT now conceive of herself as what she was before the transgenering treatment and operations ?

@sonship said
Let me ask this.

A child is given puberty blocking drugs and convinced she is a good candidate for transgender operation around 20 years old.

Now if in 15 years this person regrets that physical alterations that have been performed on the body and decides afterall she DOES identify as a female, does she have a right to do so ?

Are we to dictate that she CANNOT now conceive of herself as what she was before the transgenering treatment and operations ?

What a thoroughly odd question.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

What a thoroughly odd question.

Odd questions cannot get an answer from you ?

Ghost, rephrase my "odd question" so that you find it "normal".
Let me see if you touch on the essence of it or change the essence to something else.

If after surgery one identifies with the pre-surgery sex, is that to be discouraged or encouraged or it doesn't matter?

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

What a thoroughly odd question.

Odd questions cannot get an answer from you ?

Sorry, by odd I of course meant ridiculous.

Why would anyone not have 'the right' to change their mind and who is trying to 'dictate' anything?

@caissad4 said
A fool is one who chooses to remain ignorant.
Your own views of the Christian hell puts you at odds with many fools here. True ?

Me being at odds with other Christians doesn’t make them fools, nor does their rejection of my interpretation of the bible. I also don’t subscribe to this “choosing to remain ignorant” label; psychologically religious belief is a little like political belief or any other ideologically entrenched mindset.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

The practices in the countries you list may indicate that it is widely acceptable but it is wrong to conflate as to being “widely necessary”. As a matter of interest, do you approve of gender reassignment surgery for people as young as 15-16 years?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Why would anyone not have 'the right' to change their mind and who is trying to 'dictate' anything?

It gets far less media press then that former.
How much news do you see about the regretful ones, the suicidal ones, the ones realizing a bad thing has happened to them in going along with the philosophy?

You get more media hype about the former one's wanting change then the latter regretting that they attempted change.

I think somewhere down in the root system of transgender, perhaps with its major proponents more than with others, is a anti-God arrogance.

It says "Not even God can tell me what I am. He said He made them male and female. But we will overthrow His intention and make ourselves whatever we wish to be."

I think somewhere in the origins of this movement is this kind of atheistic or anti-theist rebellion.

"And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." (Genesis 1:27)

Male and Female God created humanity. It is not enough to deny that God exists to some people. They will throw off the Creator's authority in creation.

"We will create ourselves with new designations, as many as we want to invent. God has no existence and no right to determine what sex we are."

I think some of this is going on down at the base of this activism.