Manufacturing Transgender Kids

@suzianne said
Why is it your business deciding the sexual ethics for someone else? Unless you've been there, you can't.

That makes your opinion that they are somehow 'deficient', just pure bigotry.

I have heard you are a Christian, right?

Christ stated that marriage is between a man and a woman, and we are told that sex is just for our marriages, correct?

Moreover, Paul reiterated this more extensively in the Gospels, and this is a continuation of the way it was in the Old Testament as well, correct..?

Indeed, the Bible teaches us a number of morals like love your neighbor as how you love yourself that are meant to be universal principles, right?

So I do not understand why you are saying that I am judging someone else, or that I am not minding my own business because I am simply reiterating the Christian teachings on this topic.

... What do you think the Bible IS? A series of suggestions with nothing absolute in them...?

If you are not a Christian at all, forgive me. Then we just have no common ground and I have to make another post in regards to this.

@moonbus said
Of course it doesn't make sense, if you assume that the outdated social convention of assigning gender based on organs must be right. We had this discussion with KellyJay before; he kept insisting that sexual organs define gender, so, of course, he couldn't get his mind round the idea that gender might collide with that outdated social convention.

What this decision means ...[text shortened]... connected there was something wrong or objectively unhealthy about them. Why need medicine, indeed?

So where does gender come from?

What is the source of "gender," if not our bodies?

@sonship

Having watched the video, I believe that child was abused. The problem had nothing to do with the child's own sexuality, and everything to do with the issues of the grandmother in that family. Grandma was the one who needed medical (psychiatric) treatment there. The child's own voice was not heard, either by his parents or by the medical profession in that case, which compounded the abuse inflicted by the grandmother.

The child's voice was not heard again when he told his parents he had been sexually abused by another relative. This is a separate issue, unrelated to the issue of forcing the child to undergo transgender operations. But it does indicate that a catastrophic failure of communication and trust occurred in that family.

It is regrettable that the kid had to grow up in such a situation, but I don't see that transgender is the real issue there. The real issue there is that that family was severely screwed up in many ways.

@philokalia said
So where does gender come from?

What is the source of "gender," if not our bodies?

There is no simple answer to that question. All simple putative answers to that question are either inadequate or wrong. There is, however, a large and growing body of research on the topic of gender, some of it based on personal (anecdotal) experience, some of it based on genetics, some of it based on scientific surveys of sexual behavior, some of it based on case reports of psychologists, psychiatrists, and sociologists. If you are genuinely interested in the topic, I suggest you start reading and be prepared to jettison your preconceptions.

@philokalia said
But the subjective experience of a person is irrelevant to the overall truth.

If I changed my opinion because I had feelings that were incongruent with what I believed to be objectively true, I would be a coward and a hypocrite, wouldn't I?

Not when it comes to personal identity. A person's subjective impression of himself is not irrelevant to his sense of self, but is integral to it.

@moonbus said
There is no simple answer to that question. All simple putative answers to that question are either inadequate or wrong. There is, however, a large and growing body of research on the topic of gender, some of it based on personal (anecdotal) experience, some of it based on genetics, some of it based on scientific surveys of sexual behavior, some of it based on case reports o ...[text shortened]... nterested in the topic, I suggest you start reading and be prepared to jettison your preconceptions.

Our sexual functionality is incredibly physical, and until the middle of the 20th century, it would have been quite impossible to even attempt to physically alter one's body successfully to that degree... Even still, our sexuality is largely a physical thing, as we are our bodies in addition to being our minds.

Our physical body dictates our gender. Our mental disposition towards this can't actually change our bodies -- and surgery also cannot fully alter our physical identity enough to totally indicate that we have ever fully 'transitioned.'

It's actually quite impossible to overcome the physicality of our gender...

Our mental disposition towards this is not entirely irrelevant, sure, but I do not see how our brain can override physical reality.

Is it desirable for a man who wants to be a woman to have a man's body? No, it is not even desirable to him.

How would it not thus be a medical condition that we woudl view negatively?

@moonbus said
Not when it comes to personal identity. A person's subjective impression of himself is not irrelevant to his sense of self, but is integral to it.

And it is possible for us to desire things for ourselves that are simply not attainable, or to pursue things that are only partly attainable that are fake and imitative and end up harming us (hence the incredibly high suicide rates).

If we desire something for ourselves that clashes with reality drastically, the problem is not with reality, but with ourselves.

@philokalia said
Our sexual functionality is incredibly physical, and until the middle of the 20th century, it would have been quite impossible to even attempt to physically alter one's body successfully to that degree... Even still, our sexuality is largely a physical thing, as we are our bodies in addition to being our minds.

Our physical body dictates our gender. Our m ...[text shortened]... en desirable to him.

How would it not thus be a medical condition that we woudl view negatively?

You are quite simply mistaken that physiology dictates gender. There is massive documentation that this is not so. Physiology is only one component of gender. Do some reading, instead of repeating dogma.

@philokalia said
To me, this doesn't actually make sense...

Even if it is not a disorder, as they say it is not, these people still feel that they are in the wrong body and require corrective surgeries and hormone therapy.

In my mind... If you are healthy, why would you need medicine?

If I told you that I need to take Prozac or another drug to feel contentme ...[text shortened]... torting the truth?

... It just doesn't make sense.

This is clearly a politicized definition.

The issue is that they are trying to make them feel normal, hence anyone who suggests otherwise is labeled a phobic and a hater.

@philokalia said
But the subjective experience of a person is irrelevant to the overall truth.

If I changed my opinion because I had feelings that were incongruent with what I believed to be objectively true, I would be a coward and a hypocrite, wouldn't I?

So feelings and experiences are subjective and beliefs objective? Truth is only delivered by the head and never the heart?

Is that your position?

@whodey said
The issue is that they are trying to make them feel normal, hence anyone who suggests otherwise is labeled a phobic and a hater.

Who is "they" and who is "them"? Your sentence is vague about who is doing what to whom.

@moonbus said
You are quite simply mistaken that physiology dictates gender. There is massive documentation that this is not so. Physiology is only one component of gender. Do some reading, instead of repeating dogma.

I am fed up sir always being on the same page as you. I formerly request we have different opinions on the next forum thread we enter.

Does physiology essentially determine other characteristics such as:

Age.
Are most people thirty years older in their body because they want to believe they are?

The 60 year old may believe that he is 24. Does his belief determine this or his physiology?

A pale white European man believes he is as black as a Nigerian.
Does physiology determine his skin color or his belief?

Now we come to sex. A woman has the physiology of a female. Yet her sex is determined by her belief that a man is erroneously within the physical body of a woman?


Now with the above examples, perhaps some very, very particularly exceptional cases may be out there. For the most part though, physiology are biological characteristics which we can hardly reverse because of preferred belief.

A bald man is physiologically BALD. He can get artificial hair. He can hardly believe that his belief overrides his physical characteristic of baldness.

And the strangest thing is that with many atheist high priests of science, on one hand they argue that the material of the universe is all there really is to explain reality. And man's belief means nothing. The physical world determines all. Then with transgenderism they turn right around and say the physical world of the person's physiology is not important but what is BELIEVED in the mind has the final say.

Seems selective bias to me.
Matter over mind when it comes to God and spirituality.
Mind over matter when it comes to self re-defining one's sexual being.

I don't understand why the shift.

@moonbus said
You are quite simply mistaken that physiology dictates gender. There is massive documentation that this is not so. Physiology is only one component of gender. Do some reading, instead of repeating dogma.

Call me old fashioned...

But i don't understand how it'd work if you said you were a girl but you have a penis, and vice versa. It's simply not accurate...

And if you cut your body up to change that... Well, that is not normal and healthy.

It's not what you want and it's not the proper approach to one's gender identity...

Even if you think it's acceptable and necessary for someone, it certainly is not healthy to go through all of this and to be born with such a very cknfjsinf situation.

It's dishonest to actually portray the process of going through this as a normal and healthy process.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
So feelings and experiences are subjective and beliefs objective? Truth is only delivered by the head and never the heart?

Is that your position?

There is an objective reality, yes.

Right and wrong do absolutely exist.