Manufacturing Transgender Kids

@suzianne said
Yes, and I maintain that you, through the human filter of your own opinion of yourself, over others, do not properly understand that code, nor do you even attempt to apply it to your own life.

To you, its only worth is as a tool for you to denigrate others and raise yourself above them. This is not why Christ came to Earth.

Too many Christians use Chri ...[text shortened]... fashion, instead of allowing themselves to be used by Christ in order to fulfill God's will.

Oh yes, I am a very fallen person and full of my own sins. I am not a good person at all. I would never ask anyone to believe that of me.

However, let's not think about me...

God clearly condemns homosexuality, correct?

God wants us to be a light to the world, correct?

It is proper for Christians to speak out against LGBTQ and seek the salvation of these people by encouraging them to abandon their sinful ways, just as we would do this for all sinners, correct?

@sonship said
@Philokalia

Obviously...

God believes there is a universally applicable ethical code, doesn't he?

I think the universally applicable code (if that is what we term the law) was meant more to EXPOSE man. That is to uncover the distance between fallen man and the righteous and holy God.

"Here, keep this law" was more God's way of exposing man's inab ...[text shortened]... redemption, justification, and living by the indwelling of the Spirit of the Righteous One - Christ.

I see your point but... to me... the morals themselves are very meaningful and should not be underestimated.

We will never live up to them, and we are exposed as sinners by them, and perhaps perfection is too great for us to even hope for... But it is this struggle that gives us meaning.

"Manufacturing" is an interesting choice of word.

Maybe the parents shouted "Trans! Trans! Trans!" during copulation.

@philokalia said
Oh yes, I am a very fallen person and full of my own sins. I am not a good person at all. I would never ask anyone to believe that of me.

However, let's not think about me...

God clearly condemns homosexuality, correct?

God wants us to be a light to the world, correct?

It is proper for Christians to speak out against LGBTQ and seek the salvation of these peo ...[text shortened]... by encouraging them to abandon their sinful ways, just as we would do this for all sinners, correct?

"Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye." - Luke 6:42 KJV

@suzianne said
"Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye." - Luke 6:42 KJV

Wait, so why would you ever be critical of me, then?

You are a great sinner, correct?

What business do you have of accusing others here of bigotry and hatred?

... By your interpretation of Christianity, there can be no standards for anyone whatsoever.

I am merely making known what Christ and God think of sexual morality.

You do agree, after all, that there are some standards of sexual morality, correct?

@philokalia said
Wait, so why would you ever be critical of me, then?

You are a great sinner, correct?

What business do you have of accusing others here of bigotry and hatred?

... By your interpretation of Christianity, there can be no standards for anyone whatsoever.

I am merely making known what Christ and God think of sexual morality.

You do agree, after all, that there are some standards of sexual morality, correct?

Obviously, you can think what you want, including that your opinion of what God wants is correct and sensible.

But in light of my opinion, your opinion is flawed.

My criticism of you is based on your belief that the great crowd of people on this planet can be divided into those who are worthy and those who are unworthy. Yes, Jesus said as much.

My beef with you is that you think you can tell them apart, and so you pre-judge based on the flimsiest of criteria. You think yourself able to judge before Christ does.

@suzianne said
Obviously, you can think what you want, including that your opinion of what God wants is correct and sensible.

But in light of my opinion, your opinion is flawed.

My criticism of you is based on your belief that the great crowd of people on this planet can be divided into those who are worthy and those who are unworthy. Yes, Jesus said as much.

My beef with you is ...[text shortened]... u pre-judge based on the flimsiest of criteria. You think yourself able to judge before Christ does.

Oh no, I can't judge at all.

But...

True or false, homosexuality is a sin.

True or false, we should encourage people to [i]not be sinners.

@philokalia said
Oh no, I can't judge at all.

But...

True or false, homosexuality is a sin.

True or false, we should encourage people to [i]not be sinners.

Your first sentence does not jive with your last one.

You do not see into the hearts of others; therefore you cannot know what sins they may or may not have committed. Nor do you see the depth and sincerity of their atonement. Neither can you know how God will judge, you or anyone else.

What will be judged is the quality of your soul, not your beliefs about what is true and what is false. A completely rustic illiterate with no very specific beliefs at all about Christian doctrine has as a good a chance of receiving grace as the most erudite theologian full of weighty truths. Ponder this before you spout off about any more truths.

You should concern yourself with your own sins. Your one and only task with respect to others is to bear witness that you are follower of Jesus. You did that already.

Encourage others by your own example. The only pertinent question left to ask is, how are you doing that? By talking about it?

@philokalia said
Oh no, I can't judge at all.

But...

True or false, homosexuality is a sin.

True or false, we should encourage people to [i]not be sinners.

Above all, we are told that we must love God with all our soul and that we must love one another with the same love that we feel for ourselves.

When we concentrate on who has sinned and who has not, we are judging based on our own metrics, not those of God. When we busy ourselves with keeping score, we lose the love for one another that we are told is more important. When we love others as we love ourselves, we are not concerned with others earning our love and support. We recognize that all humans merit our love and support merely by being human. We cannot love others when we are filled with concerns like "is this person sinning and therefore unworthy of my love?" It is simply not our call to make.

@moonbus said
Your first sentence does not jive with your last one.

You do not see into the hearts of others; therefore you cannot know what sins they may or may not have committed. Nor do you see the depth and sincerity of their atonement. Neither can you know how God will judge, you or anyone else.

What will be judged is the quality of your soul, not your beliefs about what is true ...[text shortened]... ple. The only pertinent question left to ask is, how are you doing that? By talking about it?

You are wrong: we are to share the good news with the world (Mk. 16:5).

Moreover:

So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. (Mt. 10:26-27)

I merely state the obvious:

To have such an orientation is wrong, and it is not part of a good lifestyle in the least.

I am not judging anyone.

You surely distinguish between believing a thing is right or wrong and aspiring to judge the souls of men.

As for the other part: sure, there are illiterate people who will see the Kingdom of God and are made wise by God.

And they will agree with sexual morals and standards. They won't behave as some modern who can't even criticize anyone about anything.

@suzianne said
Above all, we are told that we must love God with all our soul and that we must love one another with the same love that we feel for ourselves.

When we concentrate on who has sinned and who has not, we are judging based on our own metrics, not those of God. When we busy ourselves with keeping score, we lose the love for one another that we are told is more importa ...[text shortened]... ]"is this person sinning and therefore unworthy of my love?"[/i] It is simply not our call to make.

... So you would turn a blind eye to people who are living a destructive lifestyle?

You call out racists and Nazis, don't you?

That's good of you.

Why not people who destroy themselves through sexual impurity?

@philokalia said
You are wrong: we are to share the good news with the world (Mk. 16:5).

Moreover:

So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. (Mt. 10:26-27)

I merely state the obvious:

To hav ...[text shortened]... standards. They won't behave as some modern [i]who can't even criticize anyone about anything.

To have such an orientation is wrong, and it is not part of a good lifestyle in the least.

Only those having a homophobic orientation hold that view and interpret the Bible in such a way as you have repeatedly done on this thread. A homophobic orientation is wrong and it is not part of a good lifestyle in the least.

@thinkofone said
To have such an orientation is wrong, and it is not part of a good lifestyle in the least.

Only those having a homophobic orientation hold that view and interpret the Bible in such a way as you have repeatedly done on this thread. A homophobic orientation is wrong and it is not part of a good lifestyle in the least.

Alright.

So why does the Bible say, in both the Old and New Testament, that homosexuality is wrong? And why does it provide clear definition of marriage as between a man and a woman, and why is this said to be the concession to the sexual desires of man, but nothing else..?

Why does it say created them male and female, and why does St. Paul write that even the effimenancy of men is wrong, and why does St. Paul treat men and women as being different in character as well...?

It is OK for you to disagree with the Bible.

By all means, if you reject the Bible, you can continue in your rejection. This is not what our discussion is about.

I am merely pointing out that my interpretations of the Bible are in line with the Bible itself, and in line with traditional & Orthodox Christian teaching and interpretation. I do this to the best of my ability. In fact, none of my interpretations that I present here are based on my own thought, but rather, I have molded them to the interpretations and the beliefs of the Fathers.

By all means... you can reject the Bible, and we can debate starting from that point, but if you reject the words of the Bible and the Fathers, you should not consider yourself a Christian.

@philokalia said
Alright.

So why does the Bible say, in both the Old and New Testament, that homosexuality is wrong? And why does it provide clear definition of marriage as between a man and a woman, and why is this said to be the concession to the sexual desires of man, but nothing else..?

Why does it say created them male and female, and why does St. Paul write that even t ...[text shortened]... if you reject the words of the Bible and the Fathers, you should not consider yourself a Christian.

All you are doing here is explaining why you pre-judge your neighbor, instead of treating them as Jesus commanded, and indeed, as he did himself.

John 8:3-12 KJV - "And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not]. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

"Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Unlike Jesus taught us, you prefer to condemn.

@philokalia said
Alright.

So why does the Bible say, in both the Old and New Testament, that homosexuality is wrong? And why does it provide clear definition of marriage as between a man and a woman, and why is this said to be the concession to the sexual desires of man, but nothing else..?

Why does it say created them male and female, and why does St. Paul write that even t ...[text shortened]... if you reject the words of the Bible and the Fathers, you should not consider yourself a Christian.

It is OK for you to disagree with the Bible.

By all means, if you reject the Bible, you can continue in your rejection. This is not what our discussion is about.

Read my post again . What I reject is the interpretation of the Bible to which you subscribe. It is an interpretation that attracts those who have a homophobic orientation.

I am merely pointing out that my interpretations of the Bible are in line ...with traditional & Orthodox Christian teaching and interpretation. I do this to the best of my ability. In fact, none of my interpretations that I present here are based on my own thought, but rather, I have molded them to the interpretations and the beliefs of the Fathers.


Unsurprisingly you have chosen a Christian tradition that lines up with your homophobic orientation. Not all do.