22 Feb 17
Originally posted by sonshipI'm not answering your questions sonship, until you answer the one I've put to you about believing in the trinity being a prerequisite for being filled with the spirit.
Evading.
What is six times eight ?
Yes or No ?
You know exactly what I'm asking and if you don't want to answer that's fine and we're done.
22 Feb 17
Originally posted by divegeesterYou seem to have a really hard time with this 2 savior explanation issue.
Why are you re-telling me what it is you believe?
I know what you believe roigam. My challenge to you is that you have two separate and distinct saviours, Jesus and Jehovah. One of these is an angel.
If Jesus is not your saviour, please correct me.
Here are just a few scriptures to check out to see what the bible says on this. So yes Jehovah and Jesus are both a savior to mankind:
Isaiah 43:11
I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” ( Jesus was not born yet here on the earth. )
Isaiah 45:15
Truly you are a God who conceals himself, O God of Israel, the Savior. ( Jesus had not been born yet, so was not given the title of savior yet.)
Isaiah 63:8
For he said: “Surely they are my people, sons who will not be disloyal.” So he became their Savior. ( Still speaking of Jehovah here.)
Now once Jesus was born he became a savior also. He did not replace his Father but was also given the title of savior because of the sacrifice he made for us to have our sins forgiven and to have the future in front of us of living forever just as Adam was supposed too but lost it for us all.
Here are some scriptures explaining Jesus's role with us.
Luke 2:11
For today there was born to you in David’s city a savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Acts 5:31
God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:23
According to his promise, from the offspring of this man, God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus.
So just from these few scriptures it is very clear who our saviors are. Jehovah has always been the hope of man, and out of love of Jesus for humans, he offered up his life to expedite the process that his Father Jehovah put into motion the second Adam lost it for us.
Easier now?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
22 Feb 17
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterNo you're not done. You'll ask your replied to question again many more times.
I'm not answering your questions sonship, until you answer the one I've put to you about believing in the trinity being a prerequisite for being filled with the spirit.
You know exactly what I'm asking and if you don't want to answer that's fine and we're done.
Now what is six times eight - yes or no ?
No more cowardly evasion there!
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by sonshipYou don't seem to understand me, I am not interested in talking sonship. Not until you answer the question I've asked you at least thirty times and which you are too cowardly to answer.
No you're not done. You'll ask your replied to question again many more times.
Now what is six times eight - yes or no ?
No more cowardly evasion there!
Seriously, other than that, your other witterings are just the strange beliefs of guy trapped in a Christian sect. That YouTube video clip you posted the other day of one of your meetings was borderline creepy.
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by galveston75Still with the plural?
So just from these few scriptures it is very clear who our saviors are.
Why do you need more than one savior? Especially considering this:
"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -- Acts 4:8-12, KJV
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by SuzianneAnd all the times Jehovah said that HE is the only saviour and that he will not give his glory to another...
Still with the plural?
Why do you need more than one savior? Especially considering this:
"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of ...[text shortened]... none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -- Acts 4:8-12, KJV[/b]
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by galveston75I like it when you keep telling me you have two saviours, it goes to alienate your religious organisation further from mainstream Christianity. Anyway in Isaiah 42:8 Jehovah also says, as I believe he says elsewhere "I will not give my glory to another".
You seem to have a really hard time with this 2 savior explanation issue.
Here are just a few scriptures to check out to see what the bible says on this. So yes Jehovah and Jesus are both a savior to mankind:
Isaiah 43:11
I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” ( Jesus was not born yet here on the earth. )
Isaiah 45:15
Truly you are ...[text shortened]... he process that his Father Jehovah put into motion the second Adam lost it for us.
Easier now?
It's a bit odd then that Jesus is described as:
Hebrews 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature...
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory...
John 13:31-32
Therefore when he had gone out, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him...
John 17:5
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself...
2 Peter 1:17
For when He received honor and glory from God the Father...
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by divegeester
You don't seem to understand me, I am not interested in talking sonship.
I think you are interested in talking as long as you can dominate the talk.
And I expect that you will repeat your inquisition for probably many many more times to come, as long as you see me write something about the truth and experience of the Trinity.
Not until you answer the question I've asked you at least thirty times and which you are too cowardly to answer.
I have replied as I intend to reply to your inquisition many times.
Ask anyone on the Forum.
I doubt that you could get three or four people to agree that your question was not addressed by me.
You don't like that my nuanced answer to your nuanced question doesn't involve me painting myself into the corner that you wish. So you repeat the question pretending that it has not been addressed.
Seriously, other than that, your other witterings are just the strange beliefs of guy trapped in a Christian sect. That YouTube video clip you posted the other day of one of your meetings was borderline creepy.
So you find a room full of Christians of all nationalities praying, singing, praising, reading hymn verses, and enjoying their salvation to be "creepy".
Well, that is strange that the joy of the Lord seems "creepy" to you.
And as a matter of fact, I'll post it up against so more can witness the celabration of the brothers and sisters around the globe.
So called "creepy" rejoicing and singing of Christians at a Lord's Table meeting in Rome.
1.) In Rome
&t=41s
2.) In Cebu - Philippines
3.) In Perth Australia
4.) In Ukraine
5.) In Helsinki
&t=45s
6.) In India
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by sonshipWell, the one in Helsinki was certainly creepy!!!You don't seem to understand me, I am not interested in talking sonship.
I think you are interested in talking as long as you can dominate the talk.
And I expect that you will repeat your inquisition for probably many many more times to come, as long as you see me write something about the truth and experience of the Trinity.
[quo ...[text shortened]... ?v=v_w7DjZUtIU&t=45s
6.) In [b]India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQiEZQDGmw[/b]
A group of men gather around a jug and seem to collectively get angry with the jug, culminating with the jug magically vanishing from the table!
Scared the life out of me...
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
23 Feb 17
2 edits
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThey are not angry with a jug. They are remembering the Lord Jesus as He instructed by eating the bread and the wine. The bread and wine signifying the broken body of Christ and the shed blood for our eternal redemption.
Well, the one in Helsinki was certainly creepy!!!
A group of men gather around a jug and seem to collectively get angry with the jug, culminating with the jug magically vanishing from the table!
Scared the life out of me...
There are not many things Christ asked His disciples to do in way of ceremony.
Baptism, the Lord's table are the only two I can think of off the top of my head.
The cup of wine (which you called a jug) did not disappear in any creepy way. They simply pray over the cup, collectively break the bread, and then distribute the two items to the rest of the congregation.
The same holy enjoyment is taking place in one of the local church meetings in Ethiopia. What I would hope you would notice is that in all these places, the unity of the Spirit and worship is virtually the same.
Meeting in Ethiopia with some teaching
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by SuzianneOh my....still so hard to grasp I see.
Still with the plural?
Why do you need more than one savior? Especially considering this:
"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of ...[text shortened]... none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -- Acts 4:8-12, KJV[/b]
Do you disagree that before Jesus came to earth and presented himself to be offered up his life which is what was needed to be our savior, that his father, not Jesus was the only savior mankind had up to the point of Jesus arriving on earth?
Jehovah, not Jesus, had not only been the savior of his people many times in defending them from other nations that wanted to kill them, but he also made the plans needed for his son Jesus to be born here on earth and at the end of his life, Jesus would then become or savior by his death.
So first it was Jehovah who was his peoples savior...then his son Jesus was sent to earth to become all of mankind's savior who accepted him, Jesus, as the one now in that roll.
Does that make any sense to you at all? It's in your bible so it should......
So no we really don't need two saviors but that's not the point. The point is without Jehovah and his love for us there would be no salvation for anyone at all. But he knew we needed one in order to live. So his own son Jesus offered himself up to do this for us. His Father Jehovah cannot become flesh because if he somehow did, we would not be able to live in his presence just as the bible explains.
But his son could become flesh to help us, so he did.
Anything? Any help at all?
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by sonshipDid you see the jug leave the table?
They are not angry with a jug. They are remembering the Lord Jesus as He instructed by eating the bread and the wine. The bread and wine signifying the broken body of Christ and the shed blood for our eternal redemption.
There are not many things Christ asked His disciples to do in way of ceremony.
Baptism, the Lord's table are the only two I can thin ...[text shortened]...
[b]Meeting in Ethiopia with some teaching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpxlQcBn5E[/b]
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
23 Feb 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI have been to hundreds of table meetings. The physical body of one of the praying serving ones probably obscured for a moment the visibility of the cup.
Did you see the jug leave the table?
What is done is that the cup and the plate of bread are passed around. Unless there was a break in the film, one of those men took the cup to pass it around. You just could not see it for a moment when he picked it up.